Bob Blosl's Heritage Large Fowl Thread

[Christie Rhae]

These pullets seemed small even when they were baby chicks.  I think they're just on the dainty side.  They are all healthy so I don't plan to cull any.  I can watch what they do as they mature.  If I don't use them for breeding they will become part of the laying flock.  Who knows?  They may mature to near standard size.  Only time will tell.

Sarah



I can't specifically speak to Javas, BUT, I can say that in my Rocks, if I use an undersized female it hurts me tremendously.  

I agree with Yard... I wonder if the pullets were hatched from pullet eggs as opposed to larger eggs from hens.  From what I've seen, it seems like chicks from hens are more robust from hatch and I can still see the difference as adults....   Those from pullets are usually a little "runty".    Anyone have thoughts on this?

Can anyone provide insight on the idea that color comes from the male and type/size from the female?  I'm sure it's been discussed before, wondering if this is something that is valid.  If this is the case, then in the example Sarah is giving, she'd want to find the biggest hen she can and go from there.   I'm having a size issues with my Spanish, as was told that to get the size up, if I could only choose between a new (heavier) male or female, bring in the new hen. 

I'm sure I'm not the most experienced hatcher here but I am accumulating some experience. I am not a fan of hatching from pullet eggs. I find the chicks are not as strong constitutionally. I have more issues with curled toes and weak legs. Runts, for sure. Some do seem to grow and catch up but not that many. Chicks hatched from the same girls months later are MUCH superior. So I've concluded hatching from pullets is a bad idea. Not much of value to be gained except knowing they're fertile.

I am also finding that mom gives type and size, skin colour, voice, and temperament. Dad gives the head and feather colour. Combs and egg colour seem to be a blend.

That is interesting Barb... I have been too busy to think of hatching till this month but I did have in the back of my mind that I wanted my girls to be as mature as possible before I hatched any chicks from them. I have made it over the one year mark. Hope the babies will be strong!
This breeding of chickens is not for those looking for quick results huh? Lol

 

[bnjrob]

I prefer hatching from 2+ year old hens increases vigor as any weak ones will have been culled and by that age they have molted so I can tell what color faults they have. I do hatch from year old birds testing that helps me figure out matings since I do mostly single mating or "pedigree" I want to know who's the daddy and who's the mommy as that helps with the culling.

Once we get more birds, that is my eventual goal - one-on-one breeding to know exactly who is each parent. For now, due to having only 6 females and 3 males to breed from, I've got two breeding pens set up with a male in each and the females divvied up between them and the other male living with food laying flock as a backup. I do have trap nest fronts that I can use for knowing who the mothers are, but unfortunately the females are wanting to nest on the floor ever since they moved to the breeding pens.

With those that we have hatched, even from pullet eggs, the vigor has been great and not having deformities or anything

. We keep wondering if the very thick egg shells have anything to do making sure that those that have hatched are strong. These egg shells and membranes are so thick that I've dropped eggs from chest high down on the ground and they didn't crack. Even being light cream-colored eggs, often it is impossible to see anything with candling because the shells are so thick.

 

[Lacy Blues]

Interesting thoughts about the food availability for the pullets affecting size. I haven't noticed them getting pushed out of the way. I will watch for that. At the moment I do not have separate pullet housing available. Could you perhaps split your young bird pen? Or like someone else said, provide room in the hen pen for the pullets and then a separate outside run as well? More construction is planned but it will be a couple of months before it is built. If I separate the pullets from the cockerels I will have to put them in with the laying hens, and the laying hens are way more aggressive than the cockerels at this point. The pullets need to mature a lot more before I can move them in with the hens. I was actually thinking of moving the pullets and one of the biggest cockerels in with the laying hens in a few months, hoping the cockerel would keep the hens from being overly aggressive with the pullets, and also hoping the older hens would teach the cockerel some manners with the ladies. In my experience, the cocks and cockerels do not get involved in the squabbles between the girls. The hens however, will definitely teach that cockerel some manners as long as you put him in with them when he first starts to think he's ready to handle a few of them. We will see.

...snip...

 

[MagicChicken]

Quote:If you will partition off a small pen in your hen run for the youngsters with a door opening only they can go through, you will see much better growth in your younger birds.Put their feed and water in there, and leave them in there for a few days for the hens to get used to them. Once the youngsters realize they are safe in there, you can crack the door for them to come and go.This reduces stress considerably, as the juveniles don't have to fight for feed, and get chased off by the hens.

I've gotten much improved size in my Orps by feeding soaked rolled oats, BOSS, scratch, and Calf Manna, as an addition to their starter.I simply mix up a scoop of each, and soak the grains and CM for 12 hours.The whole grains have given my birds much greater body size , and overall size, and condition. The CM supplies a lot of vitamins and minerals for growth too. Soak some of these grains, and watch the birds go for them.

The bird on my avatar is a 5 month old pullet in lay. The proof of the pudding.

At 12 weeks most of the Java youngsters are already larger than my laying hens. Three of the five known pullets are still a little smaller than the smallest laying hen, but not by much. When I say these pullets are small, it is relative to the rest of their siblings. Javas should be larger than a standard-bred Rhode Island Red at maturity. When these birds mature even the runty ones are going to make the cross-bred laying hens look small. But they may still be undersized per the standard. Won't know for sure until several months from now.

They're already getting most of those feed supplements, but not in that quantity and not soaked. Will have to experiment some more.

I've always admired the birds in your photos

Sarah

 

[MagicChicken]

Quote:
Can anyone provide insight on the idea that color comes from the male and type/size from the female? I'm sure it's been discussed before, wondering if this is something that is valid. If this is the case, then in the example Sarah is giving, she'd want to find the biggest hen she can and go from there. I'm having a size issues with my Spanish, as was told that to get the size up, if I could only choose between a new (heavier) male or female, bring in the new hen.

"Type/size from the female" makes sense to me because many of the cellular characteristics - the mitochondria and other organelles - are inherited through the maternal line. They have their own DNA and they are passed along through the egg itself. The mitochondrial DNA is not affected by the male's DNA. It's directly inherited from the female. Since mitochondria are the energy producers of the cells, and they are inherited only through the female, it makes sense that the female would contribute more to size and metabolism and other body-development-related factors.

Sarah

 

[cbnovick]

I'm sure I'm not the most experienced hatcher here but I am accumulating some experience. I am not a fan of hatching from pullet eggs. I find the chicks are not as strong constitutionally. I have more issues with curled toes and weak legs. Runts, for sure. Some do seem to grow and catch up but not that many. Chicks hatched from the same girls months later are MUCH superior. So I've concluded hatching from pullets is a bad idea. Not much of value to be gained except knowing they're fertile.

I am also finding that mom gives type and size, skin colour, voice, and temperament. Dad gives the head and feather colour. Combs and egg colour seem to be a blend.

I agree that pullet eggs/chicks are inferior to those of mature hens. When I have hatched from other breeders' pullet eggs, I have seen curled toes and 'runts'...compared them to the same breeders' hen's eggs too...so, I do not believe it was just a fluke occurrence.

 

[Lacy Blues]

"Type/size from the female" makes sense to me because many of the cellular characteristics - the mitochondria and other organelles - are inherited through the maternal line. They have their own DNA and they are passed along through the egg itself. The mitochondrial DNA is not affected by the male's DNA. It's directly inherited from the female. Since mitochondria are the energy producers of the cells, and they are inherited only through the female, it makes sense that the female would contribute more to size and metabolism and other body-development-related factors.

Sarah

Ok, I get that the mitochondria are inherited from the female and they are responsible for cell energy? Are there other factors in the female that reveal whether or not she has healthy mitochondria?

What about the organelle? What do these do?

 

[cgmccary]

Quote:
Can anyone provide insight on the idea that color comes from the male and type/size from the female? I'm sure it's been discussed before, wondering if this is something that is valid. If this is the case, then in the example Sarah is giving, she'd want to find the biggest hen she can and go from there. I'm having a size issues with my Spanish, as was told that to get the size up, if I could only choose between a new (heavier) male or female, bring in the new hen.

Originally Posted by MagicChicken


"Type/size from the female" makes sense to me because many of the cellular characteristics - the mitochondria and other organelles - are inherited through the maternal line. They have their own DNA and they are passed along through the egg itself. The mitochondrial DNA is not affected by the male's DNA. It's directly inherited from the female. Since mitochondria are the energy producers of the cells, and they are inherited only through the female, it makes sense that the female would contribute more to size and metabolism and other body-development-related factors.

Sarah

When I cross a Buckeye male with a game hen (smaller), I end up with a bird that is smaller than a Buckeye. When I cross a Game male with a Buckeye hen, I get a bird that is larger than a Buckeye. I don't readily know if it is because female controls "Type," but just what I have observed. I have been told the same thing about female and type by a couple of breeders. I breed my Buckeyes a lot from older, large females.

 

[MagicChicken]

Quote:
"Organelles" are a class of self-replicating objects within a cell that are inherited through cell division. Mitochondria are a type of organelle. That is about as far as I can explain without going back through my school notes from way back when. For breeding chickens, all you really need to know is "type/size from the female." If she's big and healthy and of good type, use her.

 

[bnjrob]

At 12 weeks most of the Java youngsters are already larger than my laying hens. Three of the five known pullets are still a little smaller than the smallest laying hen, but not by much. When I say these pullets are small, it is relative to the rest of their siblings. Javas should be larger than a standard-bred Rhode Island Red at maturity. When these birds mature even the runty ones are going to make the cross-bred laying hens look small. But they may still be undersized per the standard. Won't know for sure until several months from now.

They're already getting most of those feed supplements, but not in that quantity and not soaked. Will have to experiment some more.

I've always admired the birds in your photos

Sarah

Ours are still growing so I'd say hang on as long as you can to as many of them as you can to see who turns out the best. It really is a slow growing breed in some things. It's like as chicks, they grown like weeds, then they sorta seem to stall, but then they slowly start growing again. When I see other chickens, I just think "wow those are little chickens". At the state fair I was just appalled at the chickens they had on display cuz they were so small and not nearly as good looking as the photos of the ones we see here on this thread of well managed SOP birds.

It did freak me out at first when I saw most of ours seem to have white or pink feet/legs and even some with pale and even gypsy color faces. But as they have grown, they have been good about changing into yellow feet and darker shanks.