Bob Blosl's Heritage Large Fowl Thread

[Lacy Blues]

Bob,

Wanted to ask you...

When you were making bantam Javas ages ago, did you say that you developed one group by using a bantam of other breed?

I am wondering because... and I'd like to hear from you based on your experience as well as others who have some genetic knowledge they can share... in my bantam Andalusian project, I have gotten chicks with a very wide range of sizes and what I'm wondering is... will EVERY chick since the beginning of this project receive the bantam gene passed from the daddy that started it all? If I keep the ones that are larger and pretty nice birds in their own right, to use with my large fowl, do they carry and will they pass on the bantam gene as well?

Bob?

 

[Robert Blosl]

Quote: I started the Rhode Island Red Mohawk line 20 years ago. In Javas I just told in the article how I would do it. Funny thing all the doo gooder chicken buddies of mine made fun of me on this article. Then I here Monty in Kansas has been working on this project for ten years or so and used the same bantam I suggested a Black Rock Bantam. All you can do is choose chicks that are smaller each year and do not worry about color. Just keep shrinking them down. Inbreeding them back to a good colored male or female will shrink them down. I got a egg today from a bantam red female that was the size of a Walnut. I got two chicks out of her and they are so tiny I am going to start a whole new family taking one male from her and inbreed him back to her for two to three years. My midget line.

I bet the chicks will be two oz under weight from a normal red bantam. Most red bantams today are large. If weighed many would be disqualified. But we don't want to go into that there will never be scales in a show room in my life time.

http://www.hpbaa.com/New_Hampshire_Reds.html

 

[qball53]

Partial quote;
Ask yourself this question. Would someone who has won three grand Champion Large Fowl of the shows at major shows against major top large fowl competition have chickens in the area of Rhode Island Reds that would even resemble at hatchery Rhode Island Red? No way.

Next when I typed this it was kind of Tough and Cheek when I did it to see if anyone would comment about it not in your way or concern which was correct to ask.. If I would say that this Mohawk line which I named twenty years ago was the top winning line in the South East United states and one bird beat a white rock large fowl cockerel from the mid west that has won himself two or three grand champion large fowls of big mid west shows. I saw this great male at the Newnan Georgia Show. He was fantastic large fowl champion in his own right. Also, at this show was a champion Light Brahma female who she herself has won many awards in her show carrier. She was reserve champion large fowl of this show.


Got it Bob, thanks!!! Several folks chimed in and let me know they were two different folks. I figured I was missing something. Can't wait for these to grow out.

Mike

 

[Lacy Blues]

I started the Rhode Island Red Mohawk line 20 years ago. In Javas I just told in the article how I would do it. Funny thing all the doo gooder chicken buddies of mine made fun of me on this article. Then I here Monty in Kansas has been working on this project for ten years or so and used the same bantam I suggested a Black Rock Bantam. All you can do is choose chicks that are smaller each year and do not worry about color. Just keep shrinking them down. Inbreeding them back to a good colored male or female will shrink them down. I got a egg today from a bantam red female that was the size of a Walnut. I got two chicks out of her and they are so tiny I am going to start a whole new family taking one male from her and inbreed him back to her for two to three years. My midget line.

I bet the chicks will be two oz under weight from a normal red bantam. Most red bantams today are large. If weighed many would be disqualified. But we don't want to go into that there will never be scales in a show room in my life time.

http://www.hpbaa.com/New_Hampshire_Reds.html

I misunderstood then. I thought it was a project that you actually worked on.

Ok, so my question remains... the bantam gene, does every chick get it?

Anybody?

 

[3riverschick]

I misunderstood then. I thought it was a project that you actually worked on.

Ok, so my question remains... the bantam gene, does every chick get it?

Anybody?

here ya go. sex-linked dominant
http://keiths-orps.co.uk/categories/bantam/buff/sex-linked-dominant-gene---bantam.html
Best,
Karen

 

[OSUman]

I believe it is a sex linked gene, probably recessive it is, but I am not sure of that. If it is sex linked recessive, then all of the females would have the bantam gene, and then the males would be split to it. Though not all bantams actually have the gene.

I misunderstood then. I thought it was a project that you actually worked on.

Ok, so my question remains... the bantam gene, does every chick get it?

Anybody?

ETA
Just saw what Karen said and did a little searching, from what the people have said on other forums it is an Autosomal gene, so its not just a matter of obtaining the gene.

 

[MagicChicken]

Here are some photos of my Black Javas from Duane Urch, at 13 weeks of age. Overall, I like these birds a lot. I weighed a few of them yesterday. The cockerels ranged from 3.5 to 4.5 pounds. The pullets ranged from 2.5 to 3.5 pounds. These photos were taken a little before sunset. All the birds had full crops, which makes them look more full in the breast than they really are at this stage.

Here you get a feel for the overall group. Yes, there are a lot of cockerels:




One of the cockerels. Not the best one, not the worst. Just one that stood relatively still for a photo:


Same cockerel from above. This bird narrows a bit toward the tail. A few birds have wider tails. Several have much narrower ones:



The only pullet photo I got. I like her tail width and her overall shape. But she is one of the smallest pullets - around 2.5 pounds at 13 weeks:



Another cockerel, again neither the best nor the worst in the batch. His back does normally slope down toward the rear - it's more level in the photo because he was turning around. It looks like he has a slight hump in the back line. Several birds in this flock have that slight "hump," but I haven't decided if it is an illusion or if it's a real structural issue:



Same cockerel, from above:



And another cockerel. This one has a straighter slope to his back, which I like. I also like the curve of his head. His earlobe seems large. He's one of the medium-size cockerels:



And some more cockerels. The one on the left is one of the largest and I like its keel depth, length of back and general head shape, but its feet have white soles. Couldn't get a good photo of him:


And last but not least, one of my mystery birds. A friend of mine who also raises javas was trying to make this bird into a pullet a week or so ago. I've thought all along that it's a slow-maturing cockerel. He does have a small comb that looks more like the pullet combs, but he also has very large shanks and he is beginning to develop pointy hackle feathers. And his voice is hoarser than the pullets' voices. Time will tell. This is one of two birds in the 22 bird flock that actually has the dark eyes that Black Javas are supposed to have. He doesn't look quite as pinched in the tail in person as he does in this photo, but his tail is narrower than I would like. He is so different from the rest of the birds I am very curious to see what he looks like when he is mature. I say "he" but I won't make any bets on what this bird is until it crows or lays an egg:



I welcome any comments you have about these birds - particularly about their type issues. I have a long way to go in terms of developing an "eye" for type.

Sarah

 

[Pozees]

It seems Mr. Urch has no leghorns this season. Not laying or hatching. Since my order was part of a larger order from my state (CO) I told him he could fill the rest of the order as is and my part with Mottled Javas, which he has. Leaves me with two things: Mottled Java chicks in a nod to Bob B., and no RC or any other Leghorns. Availability shall chart this particular course it appears.

 

[Lacy Blues]

Thank you Karen! That helps a lot. I can now figure out a little more on the future of these critters!

 

[Robert Blosl]

It seems Mr. Urch has no leghorns this season. Not laying or hatching. Since my order was part of a larger order from my state (CO) I told him he could fill the rest of the order as is and my part with Mottled Javas, which he has. Leaves me with two things: Mottled Java chicks in a nod to Bob B., and no RC or any other Leghorns. Availability shall chart this particular course it appears.

I am having great hatches on the mottle Javas almost every egg is hatching. Will have more than I can raise. Might be able to send you some latter before it gets to hot to ship which is a average of 85 or more per day down here. Because I live 30 miles from the Gulf of Mexico it gets hotter here before others further north.

In regards to the bantam gene being in every chick I have no idea. I just hatch 40 or 50 and look for the smallest chick or egg and hammer away for 15 years. One year I got stuck I had three years of no reduction I got a call from a friend and said I heard of your project I would like to get two males from you. I sent him two males and he mated them to his red bantams which where the same strain as mine. Lee Roy Jones. Then he shipped me two males back. They where smaller than their sires. Then they just go smaller. In five years I had bantam males that looked like my old large fowl, the females however where not as typey. I then inbreed the top five females back to one male for three years and kept five separate family's. Then one day all my females looked like little bantams in fact that year three of them won best of breeds over my males and other competition. It took 15 years to get there.

So that's all I know. Now I got some standard weight or two oz under standard weight. Fun Project at least I can say I did it and was the first to do this with Reds to try to breed out the Cochin and Old English bantam traits that was used to make the Red Bantam in the beginning.