Bob Blosl's Heritage Large Fowl Thread

[ocap]

All of my chicks were hatched on the same day and have been establishing pecking order, but I witnessed something this week that I had not observed before, one of the larger Australorps walked in between a buckeye and a Wyandotte that were in the fight process. when that happened the fight ended

 

[fowlman01]

All of my chicks were hatched on the same day and have been establishing pecking order, but I witnessed something this week that I had not observed before, one of the larger Australorps walked in between a buckeye and a Wyandotte that were in the fight process. when that happened the fight ended

he is probably above them in the pecking order. Keep in mind that the hierarchy can change as they grow.

Walt

 

[Lacy Blues]

Thanks everybody, for your helpful tips. I guess I need to find an OLD boy to put in those two pens. Walt, how old of a male do you use? I have two older boys... one is 4 years this year and his daddy is the other. They are both very gentle birds, with the girls and me, but with each other, I think they wouldn't put up with any guff. I've read about this before and that author suggested a careful watch to be sure the young boys don't gang up on the older guy.

I will try this. First though, I probably ought to go through those pens and do some culling. These pens are my bantam project boys and they're due for a first culling. Actually there have been a few who for various reasons have already been taken out. I have 3 lines in these groups and I need to be able to consider each line separately. Right now they're all mixed up together.

 

[fowlman01]

Thanks everybody, for your helpful tips. I guess I need to find an OLD boy to put in those two pens. Walt, how old of a male do you use? I have two older boys... one is 4 years this year and his daddy is the other. They are both very gentle birds, with the girls and me, but with each other, I think they wouldn't put up with any guff. I've read about this before and that author suggested a careful watch to be sure the young boys don't gang up on the older guy.

I will try this. First though, I probably ought to go through those pens and do some culling. These pens are my bantam project boys and they're due for a first culling. Actually there have been a few who for various reasons have already been taken out. I have 3 lines in these groups and I need to be able to consider each line separately. Right now they're all mixed up together.

I use the oldest male that I can spare.

w.

 

[Robert Blosl]

I heard you where thinking the cost to ship chicks would be less than Mr. Ipswich told you.

I sent ten mottled Java chicks to a fellow in Texas the shipping was about $69. the box was 415. Ten for the box and five for shipping it to me. the cost of the chicks was $10. He sent me $200. I put the difference in a zip lock bag and shoved it into the bottom of the box. If you got three large fowl adult birds the box and the shipping to me is abut $80. the shipping is about $150. The birds are $50. each. The average cost for shipping a trio of Plymouth Rocks is between $250 to $300.

It cost money to ship chicks. You can not ship ten day old chicks two day priority mail because it takes sometimes three to four days to get to the buyers post office. I loose about 25% of the chicks to dehydration. Its cheaper of course but not the method to ship ten to 14 day old chicks.

Day old chicks can be shipped on Monday and get to the buyer by wendsday and may not loose that many. They live off their yolks during the trip. However, you pay normally from a good breeder or hatchery about $8. each for a day old. We are charging the same for a ten day old which really should be $10 per chicks. Also, when you order day olds the normal minimum shipment is 25 chicks. So if you add up the cost of 25 chicks and the box and the shipping your investment is much more.

I can see why so many people are not wanting to ship chicks to people. The confusion and the time consumption on their part. I have had many tell me they will not ship chicks anymore and maybe eggs but then you have to deal with the rough care by the post office and possible low hatch rate. That is why most good breeders do not ship eggs or chicks and you have to buy birds at their farm or at shows.

I myself will not ship chicks anymore because of the labor and the high cost. Its just not worth the hassle.

Thought you might like to know the facts on the cost of buying chicks from a Heritage Large Fowl Breeder.

This is a message I sent a person who wanted H large fowl chicks. Thought you newbies out there would like to read this before you want some of these rare chicks from us breeders.

I know of two fellows who are in their third or fourth year who told me they will not ship chicks anymore because of dealing with the public.

For so many years you have asked why people will not ship eggs or chicks to you. This is the reason. Its not worth the labor on their part or the hassle of unhappy buyers.

Also, got a message from a person who is trying to get a rare breed of H chickens and got about two dozen eggs sent to them. Has only a minimal fertile eggs in the incubator and if they hatch two or three they will be lucky. Lets say the cost of the eggs is a toal of $70.

If they hatch three chicks that's a pretty price for a chick. It happens all the time. The rarer they are it seems the less hatch you get. However, if you ship barn yard mutts or feed store type birds the hatches are so much better.

That's all I got to report today. You are lucky this year to get what you have ordered. Also, to you newbies. Breeders don't hatch all year long. They start in January and end maybe in April or May. You send me messages or emails wanting eggs or chicks like today or next month. Its over. The hatcheries yes they ship maybe all year long. Not good breeders of Standard Breed Fowl.

The lady in Arizona who is getting Buff Rock Large Fowl eggs from Tom R. You are the luckiest person of the year to get a super rare but good strain of birds. My friend in Texas you got the rarest of the rarest chicks in the Mottled Javas.

All in all its been a good year getting people involved in H chickens. Some will keep them some will be out of them in a year or two. That's normal. Thanks to all of you who shared your birds with the newbies. Its worth the headaches and I am sure most of the buyers are great full.

 

[Yellow House Farm]

Bob, I think that in general, we, as a culture, undervalue chickens as well as other farming things. We often get comments that reveal folks are price-shy, but then they pull out cell phones that are embarrassingly expensive and that are intentionally destined to be obsolete in one to two seasons. Even with farming folk, one can see as discrepancy. Once a woman called me up to ask about a purchase she was considering. The chicks were going to cost a few hundred dollars, which was a lot she thought. Well, the conversation got to rambling, and she had husbandry issues and breed questions. Somehow we arrived at her cows and how she had paid just shy of $2000.00 for a rare breed milker. I was like, "OK, let's stop there." $2000 for one cow!? One cow is a dead end. A few hundred dollars for the good quality chicks can launch a self-sustaining breeding program that can last a life-time with very little, if anything, for stock brought in down the road. I guarantee she was going to spend that much just for her AI on the one cow for one season.

$200-$300? If we actually think about it, $500-$600 dollars isn't too much to pay for a bloodline that, with a little effort in study, will last a life-time. Indeed, a well begun poultry line is one of the few things one can still procure that, with correct husbandry, has the potential of a lifetime guarantee. On a depreciation scale, that's hardly anything at all. Good chickens are cheap; cheap chickens are a hoax, and that's a very different thing.

Then when one considers that potential for top-quality meat and eggs with outstanding flavor, the original investment is even more reduced in shock value. We eat eggs multiple times a week and all of our chicken, our most frequently consumed meat, is from our farm. The scrumptious difference between what we enjoy and supermarket products carries a certain value, one that certainly exceeds anything we ever paid for seed stock.

Our flocks of White Dorkings and Rose comb Anconas are closed, meaning we do not bring in new stock, and we won't have to for a long, long time. That's a great feeling.

So, to all who are shopping, pay the funds upfront. Don't waste a season...or five...fooling with stock that can't and won't fulfill your aspirations. Come the fall, $300 for a sound trio or a couple of pair from a good breeder is small expense for what you're going to derive from them in food resources and happy leisure.

When you purchase chickens, don't just see the birds you're buying. Think forward. See the years and years of birds you are ensuring via this original purchase. From these few birds are going to come hundreds, even thousands, of future chicks, generation after generation of quality. Dinner parties where guests drop jaw at the deliciousness of the fare. Years and years of the beauty of sculpted outlines and measured balance. Possible wins but ensured fun at chickens shows full of peers with same interests. All of it is had for the cost of a car payment, except that they'll be around a lot longer than your car.

 

[thedragonlady]

Bob, I think that in general, we, as a culture, undervalue chickens as well as other farming things. We often get comments that reveal folks are price-shy, but then they pull out cell phones that are embarrassingly expensive and that are intentionally destined to be obsolete in one to two seasons. Even with farming folk, one can see as discrepancy. Once a woman called me up to ask about a purchase she was considering. The chicks were going to cost a few hundred dollars, which was a lot she thought. Well, the conversation got to rambling, and she had husbandry issues and breed questions. Somehow we arrived at her cows and how she had paid just shy of $2000.00 for a rare breed milker. I was like, "OK, let's stop there." $2000 for one cow!? One cow is a dead end. A few hundred dollars for the good quality chicks can launch a self-sustaining breeding program that can last a life-time with very little, if anything, for stock brought in down the road. I guarantee she was going to spend that much just for her AI on the one cow for one season.

$200-$300? If we actually think about it, $500-$600 dollars isn't too much to pay for a bloodline that, with a little effort in study, will last a life-time. Indeed, a well begun poultry line is one of the few things one can still procure that, with correct husbandry, has the potential of a lifetime guarantee. On a depreciation scale, that's hardly anything at all. Good chickens are cheap; cheap chickens are a hoax, and that's a very different thing.

Then when one considers that potential for top-quality meat and eggs with outstanding flavor, the original investment is even more reduced in shock value. We eat eggs multiple times a week and all of our chicken, our most frequently consumed meat, is from our farm. The scrumptious difference between what we enjoy and supermarket products carries a certain value, one that certainly exceeds anything we ever paid for seed stock.

Our flocks of White Dorkings and Rose comb Anconas are closed, meaning we do not bring in new stock, and we won't have to for a long, long time. That's a great feeling.

So, to all who are shopping, pay the funds upfront. Don't waste a season...or five...fooling with stock that can't and won't fulfill your aspirations. Come the fall, $300 for a sound trio or a couple of pair from a good breeder is small expense for what you're going to derive from them in food resources and happy leisure.

When you purchase chickens, don't just see the birds you're buying. Think forward. See the years and years of birds you are ensuring via this original purchase. From these few birds are going to come hundreds, even thousands, of future chicks, generation after generation of quality. Dinner parties where guests drop jaw at the deliciousness of the fare. Years and years of the beauty of sculpted outlines and measured balance. Possible wins but ensured fun at chickens shows full of peers with same interests. All of it is had for the cost of a car payment, except that they'll be around a lot longer than your car.

One of the main reasons I do not ship chicks, or eggs, is to ensure that buyers get a decent breeding pair, or trio, from my line. I ship 8-12 week old juveniles, who are selected as appropriate to breed to one another. This involves culling from hatching on. This practice entails a lot more work and expense on my end. Yes, these juveniles cost more, but so far all my buyers are happy that they have not had to raise and wade through 50 or more chicks to get a breeding trio, and the birds are producing well for them.

 

[Robert Blosl]

So many good points. Think how many White Dorkings you have to hatch per year to get white ones. They don't understand your story like I do. Hatch 800 chicks and only keep three hundred to raise because they have color in their down color from the crosses you had to make to get the type. And maybe only keep twenty to adult hood and breed from them.

I see people who want a good strain of R I Red large fowl. They want to show them and of course they will spend two to four hundred dolor's to go to a show. It is paramount that you pick the top strains that will have a chance to win at shows under top completion. Yet people order and spend say $200. and raise them up breed them again and then find out the strain is just ok. It may have a famous history or some good hype but they have to get rid of them and start over in two to three years. You ask them how many birds they hatched and raised and they may have spent $1,000 or more in feed on these birds to learn their lesson. That is why its so important to do your home work. However, in the case of this thread many are coming out of the gutter and have had feed store chicks. When they want a H breed they really don't care what they get as they have had the mutts for so long.

Some don't care as they are not going to breed them to any standard or even show them. Yet they think they will make a few dollars selling chicks or egss to help pay for the investment. Once people find out they have a so so strain their orders go down and people start to talk about the quality level of their birds.

Its only human that some people do this. That's why in Rhode Island Reds we may help or see 100 people get into them and ten years latter there will be two left still plowing away and at twenty years only one person is still going at it. Think I am crazy read the literature , follow the membership lists of the clubs or read the aba or apa year books and see who made it to that point.

So many give up at the eight year mark. Hopefully, people will learn many of the mistakes others have made in breeding and will not have as many in the next ten years.

 

[T Eugene]

I heard you where thinking the cost to ship chicks would be less than Mr. Ipswich told you.

I sent ten mottled Java chicks to a fellow in Texas the shipping was about $69. the box was 415. Ten for the box and five for shipping it to me. the cost of the chicks was $10. He sent me $200. I put the difference in a zip lock bag and shoved it into the bottom of the box. If you got three large fowl adult birds the box and the shipping to me is abut $80. the shipping is about $150. The birds are $50. each. The average cost for shipping a trio of Plymouth Rocks is between $250 to $300.

It cost money to ship chicks. You can not ship ten day old chicks two day priority mail because it takes sometimes three to four days to get to the buyers post office. I loose about 25% of the chicks to dehydration. Its cheaper of course but not the method to ship ten to 14 day old chicks.

Day old chicks can be shipped on Monday and get to the buyer by wendsday and may not loose that many. They live off their yolks during the trip. However, you pay normally from a good breeder or hatchery about $8. each for a day old. We are charging the same for a ten day old which really should be $10 per chicks. Also, when you order day olds the normal minimum shipment is 25 chicks. So if you add up the cost of 25 chicks and the box and the shipping your investment is much more.

I can see why so many people are not wanting to ship chicks to people. The confusion and the time consumption on their part. I have had many tell me they will not ship chicks anymore and maybe eggs but then you have to deal with the rough care by the post office and possible low hatch rate. That is why most good breeders do not ship eggs or chicks and you have to buy birds at their farm or at shows.

I myself will not ship chicks anymore because of the labor and the high cost. Its just not worth the hassle.

Thought you might like to know the facts on the cost of buying chicks from a Heritage Large Fowl Breeder.

This is a message I sent a person who wanted H large fowl chicks. Thought you newbies out there would like to read this before you want some of these rare chicks from us breeders.

I know of two fellows who are in their third or fourth year who told me they will not ship chicks anymore because of dealing with the public.

For so many years you have asked why people will not ship eggs or chicks to you. This is the reason. Its not worth the labor on their part or the hassle of unhappy buyers.

Also, got a message from a person who is trying to get a rare breed of H chickens and got about two dozen eggs sent to them. Has only a minimal fertile eggs in the incubator and if they hatch two or three they will be lucky. Lets say the cost of the eggs is a toal of $70.

If they hatch three chicks that's a pretty price for a chick. It happens all the time. The rarer they are it seems the less hatch you get. However, if you ship barn yard mutts or feed store type birds the hatches are so much better.

That's all I got to report today. You are lucky this year to get what you have ordered. Also, to you newbies. Breeders don't hatch all year long. They start in January and end maybe in April or May. You send me messages or emails wanting eggs or chicks like today or next month. Its over. The hatcheries yes they ship maybe all year long. Not good breeders of Standard Breed Fowl.

The lady in Arizona who is getting Buff Rock Large Fowl eggs from Tom R. You are the luckiest person of the year to get a super rare but good strain of birds. My friend in Texas you got the rarest of the rarest chicks in the Mottled Javas.

All in all its been a good year getting people involved in H chickens. Some will keep them some will be out of them in a year or two. That's normal. Thanks to all of you who shared your birds with the newbies. Its worth the headaches and I am sure most of the buyers are great full.

Bob, I will treat them like the rarest of the rarest. I'm very glad to have them and appreciate you trusting me, with no experience, to partner in restoring their quality and numbers. I can't wait to see what they look like after their adult molt.

Your friend in Texas

 

[colburg]

$200-$300? If we actually think about it, $500-$600 dollars isn't too much to pay for a bloodline that, with a little effort in study, will last a life-time. Indeed, a well begun poultry line is one of the few things one can still procure that, with correct husbandry, has the potential of a lifetime guarantee. On a depreciation scale, that's hardly anything at all. Good chickens are cheap; cheap chickens are a hoax, and that's a very different thing.

Our flocks of White Dorkings and Rose comb Anconas are closed, meaning we do not bring in new stock, and we won't have to for a long, long time. That's a great feeling.

So, to all who are shopping, pay the funds upfront. Don't waste a season...or five...fooling with stock that can't and won't fulfill your aspirations. Come the fall, $300 for a sound trio or a couple of pair from a good breeder is small expense for what you're going to derive from them in food resources and happy leisure.

When you purchase chickens, don't just see the birds you're buying. Think forward. See the years and years of birds you are ensuring via this original purchase. From these few birds are going to come hundreds, even thousands, of future chicks, generation after generation of quality. Dinner parties where guests drop jaw at the deliciousness of the fare. Years and years of the beauty of sculpted outlines and measured balance. Possible wins but ensured fun at chickens shows full of peers with same interests. All of it is had for the cost of a car payment, except that they'll be around a lot longer than your car.

I've read Bob's posts and articles where he says that a trio will get you about 5 years of good breeding without needing new blood refresh the gene pool, so I'm wondering what you're getting for the $500-$600 that will last a life-time. If $300 gets you a sound trio, does $600 get you 2 trios, or 1 really good top of the line trio?

When buying a trio, how far removed from the cockerl should the hens be? Surely not brother-sister. But what about cousins? Aunt-nephew? Uncle-neice? 2nd cousins? Or, grandpas cousins great grand-daugher twice removed?

What about the hens? Could they be sisters? Or would you prefer something else?

How far removed should 2 trios be?

On a side note, 3 15-22week old started pullets from Murray is about $20ea, shipping is $100. So you're $160 in to get juvenile hatchery stock(without a rooster). Seems to me that to pay $200, will get you quality just above hatchery. Maybe at $300, you're starting to get somewhere. By the time you consider tagging, hard culling, time, feed, etc., $300 sounds like a steal and $400-$500 gets you something worth breeding.

Keep in mind, I only have hatchery stock right now, but my SOP is on the way and I just subscribed to the Poultry Press. That's $100 just to start learning about SOP chickens.