Bob Blosl's Heritage Large Fowl Thread

[punky rooster]

i had to go thru 3 pages to find it..... But this thread is the best

 

[Robert Blosl]

https://www.backyardchickens.com/forum/viewtopic.php?pid=5469877#p5469877

If you have not voted her is the site above.

In regards to the line breeding chart. It may not work for large fowl. It worked for me for my bantams. I had not trouble with feathering, laying or vigor. Main reason I pick vigor first, then type then color. In fact on the red bantams I have not even picked any birds for color in twenty years I was breeding for size and type. The color just kind of followed from the large fowl color I think. Also, I have outcrossed to a bantam male about ten years ago. I also, have a male that I am inbreeding back to my line from Danny Feathers old hen line he gave me three years ago. She had type like a real large fowl. In some of these rare breeds this may be the only way you can improve type or color as they are so washed out from years of hatchery work. You take the Delawares you got a intense outcross with barred rocks and New Hampshires and you should have vigor up the you know what for years. Plus there will be many others who will have this new line in all corners of the country who can rotate ten chicks every five years and give each other a new shot of new blood.

I also, have two other parntners with red bantams as well as my call ducks who have my line. They live about 700 miles from me so in four our five years we will rotate then started chicks from our best mating and then do what the heck we want to do again in line breeding. I may go to my rotational line breeding method like i did my large fowl I rotate the best male to the right every year and put the best molted two hens back into the pen they came out of. That is 18 month old females. My next ten years of breeding these Red Bantams I want to get the dark quill color on the backs of my bantams like my large fowl had. Never been done in 50 years but I got to try.

bob

 

[Robert Blosl]

Quote:
I sent Lacy about ten articles and many that I had in my computer plus pictures. If he does not get any fresh articles from the present members he can put out another great Red Chroncle for six more months. I hope the membershiop will use thier heads and write something. I try to have at least two articles from cureent members, new members and maybe a junior in my Plymouth Rock Quarterlys. I got to work on the January issue in the next few days. I also, have a strong support from my Distrcit Directors and Officers so it dont take me long to fill up my 16 pages. We covered all the colors of the Plymouth Rock varity in the last two years. We had so much stuff for Partridge I had to put it in two issues.

We are going to run the articles on how to hatch, rear, cull and condition the Plymouth Rocks for the next two years. Then when I retire every thing will be covered and you could write a book on How to Get Started With Plymouth Rocks.

Dan I bet its fun to see these old breeders books. The Payne Brothers were hell on wheels in the early days, the Harold got fired up with his dark even color and then the type showed up and he ruled till he died in 1954. So said his line is all gone now or screwed up.

Don Nelson may have some of the old birds in his line from Harold . Gary Ramey may have some with his West Coast Reds that may go back to Roy Brown days . I got two guys getting eggs or chicks from this line and hope to breed them up. They look just like Harolds old line to my eyes.

Any idea who will be the person to open up page 300??????????? bob

 

[Chickielady]

Quote:

I have no idea !
These birds were taken to a feed store south of Santa Rosa (CA)and put on consignment by an old couple who breed and hatched the chicks.
I may be able to call said feed store and ask if they remember the poeple who brought these birds in for sale..All I know is they are fantastic layers and are some of the very rare that are French, so I am trying to get the feathered shanks and toes back in the line,
Thanks for looking.

No. They're not. Marans them self are not even accepted to the APA, were not brought to America until recently, and there's no way of telling if the Cuckoos you know of were bred to the SOP throughout their generations. Not meaning to offend, just clarifying.​

Look at any breed and ask of it the following:

Heritage Chicken must adhere to all the following:
1. APA Standard Breed. Heritage Chicken must be from parent and grandparent stock of breeds recognized by the American Poultry Association (APA) prior to the mid-20th century; whose genetic line can be traced back multiple generations; and with traits that meet the APA Standard of Perfection guidelines for the breed. Heritage Chicken must be produced and sired by an APA Standard breed. Heritage eggs must be laid by an APA Standard breed.
2. Naturally mating. Heritage Chicken must be reproduced and genetically maintained through natural mating. Chickens marketed as Heritage must be the result of naturally mating pairs of both grandparent and parent stock.
3. Long, productive outdoor lifespan. Heritage Chicken must have the genetic ability to live a long, vigorous life and thrive in the rigors of pasture-based, outdoor production systems. Breeding hens should be productive for 5-7 years and roosters for 3-5 years.
4. Slow growth rate. Heritage Chicken must have a moderate to slow rate of growth, reaching appropriate market weight for the breed in no less than 16 weeks. This gives the chicken time to develop strong skeletal structure and healthy organs prior to building muscle mass.
Chickens marketed as Heritage must include the variety and breed name on the label.
Terms like “heirloom,” “antique,” “old-fashioned,” and “old timey” imply Heritage and are understood to be synonymous with the definition provided here.

yeah, that is why I need to get back with the breeders I bought them from.
But seriously, there is no way I can guarantee that any of my birds have been bred to the SOP throughout generations...especially all those hatching eggs bough via mail...who knows ?
A few vague photos and someone can tell tall tales and sell crummy eggs from hatchery birds.
The best way for me or anyone else to up breed a flock to standard is to start with what we have, and breed to standard,'These birds are almost ideal to the french standard.
That is rare here in the USA, I do not know of any other feather shanked (French) Silvere Cuckoo Marans.

Edited to add: They are not from APA parent stock either, since not accepted by the APA yet, but when they are, I will be very ready...I hope.
We are getting feather shanked babies...hope a few are cockerals.

 

[Chickielady]

http://sz0030.ev.mail.comcast.net/service/home/~/SPPA_nl_winter_09_final%5B1%5D.pdf?auth=co&loc=en_US&id=17486&part=2

hope this comes through...

OK I guess it worked, did you all get a copy e-mailed ?

 

[Yellow House Farm]

The question of the Maran, for example, is one point where the defintion of Heritage, as is currently accepted, leaves some out in the lurch. I do not say this to open a debate; it is however a consideration. The "date" setting is arbitrary, and furthermore, doesn't really accomplish much, for it encompasses almost every single breed in the Standard. I think they would have done well to simply state that it need be a APA recognized breed.

The Maran, if I'm not mistaken is certainly older than the Delaware and maybe even older than the NH. To be honest, my heart delights in any well run breeding program that is based in enough fowls as to be genetically viable and that produces robust and beautiful fowl.

It sounds that you're already hatching Marans, and that some are coming out feather legged. If I'm not mistaken the Marans Club of America is chasing after the French Standard in its attempts for admittance; so that's a good thing. This would be a perfect example of an early cull point. If I were in your stead, I'd set every egg I get, and I'd cull every chick that is without leg feathering right out of the hatcher. This fall all of your new stock will be feather-legged and this trait will be more or less set in your line.

 

[Yellow House Farm]

That four generation (some would follow it for 5 to 8 generations) chart seems to drift through certain breeders circles. A challenge I've had with it is that it will, indeed, also solidify any negative trait; so, your starting specimen needs to be practically perfect.

I thought that I have on it is that, as far as I understand the process, the egg laying capacity of a given pullet comes through her sire's dam. Thus, at the end of a four or more year line-breeding experiment, I'd really want to consider the way I bring this back to the clock to not decimate my general laying capacity.

 

[Chickielady]

Thanks, my point also. But, I started this discussion as I was greatly intersted in the discussion Chris was having with Punky about the barring on the PBRs.
I wanted to know, is there a different gene that barrs the Cuckoo, as it is a sex link color ?
The Cockeral shown has tight clearlt defined barring as a PBR, but the hens are dark and have wider, blurred barring. So wanted to show examples and wanted to ask why the PBR is clearly barred on both hens and Cocks, and on Cuckoo marans, the hens are darker..that's all.
That said, I plan to breed/hatch/cull just as you said.
And that said, I wanted to ask anyone what was thei opinion of the best duck to raise for meat and eggs...I am researching cayuga...I have heard they are perfect pan sized (the production Roen were TOO big!!) and Cayuga are very good table faire, and food to meat ratio is good, but do they lay all year like the runners, and does anyone here raise a heritage duck for table and eggs ?
I want eggs this spring...thanks all~

 

[Illia]

The thing about Marans (always with an S in it

) and being a Heritage Breed is that you want to have proof that your birds have been bred for generations to the SOP, the dual purpose origin, and ALSO to the dark egg laying traits. Most Marans out there have a LOT of flaws, have too light of eggs, are too thin in type, are bred solely for egg color or production, etc. So again, like any other dual purpose breed, one must first ask them self - Is their stock actually up to par with the rest of the criteria? Do they match the SOP well? Are they bred for both egg color and body type? Could they be used as a dual purpose bird?

Even I would highly admit that mine could not be called Heritage. Some of my birds come from lines that have been bred solely for egg color, some of them have side springs and Penedesenca traits, some of them have white in their feathers, two of my laying hens lay an egg no darker than a 5 on the scale, and most of them I don't know the history of past the breeders I got them or their parents from.

I am indeed probably one of the few out there breeding towards both body and egg color as well as longevity, but for now, my breeding birds probably don't match the criteria, even with the APA accepted date taken out.

And speaking of Heritage criteria, an interesting note . . .

3. Long, productive outdoor lifespan. Heritage Chicken must have the genetic ability to live a long, vigorous life and thrive in the rigors of pasture-based, outdoor production systems. Breeding hens should be productive for 5-7 years and roosters for 3-5 years.

Honestly how many breeders do this? I don't want to come down on the many who keep their birds in small to medium runs, but really, this is indeed a very important thing. Yes, you could lose your birds by free ranging/pasture raising, but it is far more natural and healthy as well as what we originally did decades ago when raising dual purpose breeds. Birds were fed the scraps of the farm's produce and good quality food, not commercial hen feed mashed into pellet form in a metal/plastic feeder, with nothing else more to eat than a couple bugs that fly through the run.

 

[Yellow House Farm]

Quote:
Hmm....I'd check out Lamon's work. He does discuss dominques, which is going to give you a good feather pattern indicator.