Bob Blosl's Heritage Large Fowl Thread

[catdaddyfro]

My thoughts exactly. People will call me and want to buy some Buckeyes from me. Some tell me that they do not want my culls. I always tell them that some of my culls are a whole lot better than the birds I started with (which, btw, I was pleased and proud to have). I tell them there are no perfect birds. Some only want to buy hens and have no roosters so I always tell them that I would ONLY sell them cull hens -- why waste good breeder stock on someone only wanting hens to look at? Most are not really serious about it & it just goes to what bnjrob says above (AND I DON'T TAKE THEM SERIOUSLY EITHER -- ). I will help out a fellow breeder who needs some breeder birds to improve something or is experimenting with some strain crossing but other than that, I am not going out of my way to sell or give away birds, eggs, chicks. We eat the culls here.

Another thing, being a preservationist does not always mean you keep the best of the best but instead, that you keep the best from each family group. Also, breeding isn't necessarily about pairing up the correct birds but instead, it is about maintaining sufficient genetic diversity in your flock so to be able to work with your line & not losing the good traits you already have. The strength of any breeding line is maintaining genetic diversity within it.

Good conversation here.

I agree very much with the last paragraph its good to take notes from information such as this.

You must have many too choose from and hatch in great numbers too, I think.

I have only 6 BR pullets to start off with, should have 6 New Hampshire pullets and 12 RIR pullets. For breeding them this spring I'm going to have 3 BR males mated to 3 pairs of pullets same for the NH. The RIRs, I will see how my males, looks I might even have 4 good males and mate them with 3 quads of pullets. I will have the groups marked as A, B, C, & D and 1, 2, 3, & 4 if I have that many good males on the RIRs. I will breed this bunch for the first go around, hatch from them then switch males to the next group and so on. By the time I get done doing the ol switch-a-roo during this spring hatching season I should have plenty of chicks to choose from for breeders for the next year and should surely have a good mix of genetic diversity in the groups too. I think this is what these guy needs esp. the BR and NH they are all coming from such a small group(closed groups) of breeders that all being hatched are too close in characteristics and that's why I see the tails(its what I've noticed more than anything else) on them are going away, rapidly. My RIRs are good so far I think there has been much work done with them in the past esp. coming from a master breeder but one still can't get too lax in diligent culling and breeding here too its a "constant-change" is what breeding is all about. Especially with poultry.

I too have some of the Delaware project F1s from Mrs. kathyinmo I was fortunate enough to get 10 breeder pullets and have 4 males from the F1 cross I hope to be able to group these up in a similar breeding method too because they will surely need to have all the diversity one could possibly instill in them too, starting with such small groups, I believe.

Ok I shall let someone else get up on the podium now for a bit and give us some more of this wonderful great information that is surely nowhere to be found in books as most is from experienced breeders or "straight from the horses mouth", I like to say. LOL

Jeff

 

[bnjrob]

That sounds like a great idea. Yes our coyote are regulars; they live here too and I would like to have a method to keep these chickens safe. I can see a tractor handling a breeding trio.

Depending on your needs and wants, a chicken tractor will work for more than just trios if needed.

We have built 3 chickent tractors so far and I'm ready to start the framing for another larger one. Our biggest tractor houses 9 birds. It is VERY heavy though and required wide trailer tires on an axle in order to move it without it bogging down too much when the pasture gets wet.

We've got a small tractor that is meant for just a couple of birds, but it is currently housing a dozen, 1.5 month old birds without any problem. (We tried separating this large group and they all freaked and went nuts trying to get back to each other. Weirdest thing, they like being all together and they still pile up and lay with each other like little chicks, so we put them back together.)

We're basically using the formula of 4 sq ft/bird inside the coop and 10 sq ft/bird in the runs. It gives us a little fudge room and thus we were able to put 9 birds in the big tractor - 6 pullets and 3 cockerels. The youngest of our chickens will move to bigger accomodations as soon as we get them built. We planned things so that if the chickens have to stay inside, they still have room and won't be as apt to get snarky with each other. Which is a good thing, since they are staying inside the coop most of the day now that it is consistently 100+ degrees every day. We insulated the coops with metallic-backed styrofoam board and the coops stay 7-10 degrees cooler than the outside temp - which actually makes a big difference since we don't have any trees.

If you plan well, chicken tractors can work for just about whatever you need. And give you some peace of mind.

 

[Red Barn Farms]

I do Black Orpingtons.
William Cook founded the breed in 1886 crossing Black Minorcas, Langshans, and Rock.
I recieved my original Black Orpington flock from a breeder who has Cecil Moore Black Orpingtons lines over onto Gayle & Norm Pontious Black Orpington lines.
The Pontious's I believe no longer breed Blacks.
And Cecil is near 90 and does not sell anything anymore.
Here are my first 2 generations to look at that I currently have.
2nd generation cocks are each from different hens that I recieved last year
Here are couple of my Grand parent stock

Here are the three cocks I use
I have shown all three

Lovely birds! I so wish a breeder of these was close to me!

 

[aveca]

bob blosi, you should have been a novelist..your stories are so interesting, crankey, teeth and all..there are a lot of good people eagar to get into showing..they do get discouraged if no one is helping them..in the right hands that person or group mght really shine someday.especially kids...another trend i see are people trying to chase people out of showing, or owning a particular breed..maybe for selfish reasons? i dont really know. but these new people could spend good money in clubs, birds , equipment, feed and shows..then they get discouraged and wind up find something better to spend money on..im not sure what the answer to that is...i had a family just getting started, got some decent birds for the kids.......now,.you dont give your kentuckey derby winner to kids, but you give them nice birds to learn with.....talk about discouraged..they no sooner did they say 2 words online and she was stalked, harrassed, ambushed at every turn.... people who are on line say and do things that they would never do to your face..these people are going to go ahead and finish the show season, but there is already talk of peace bond if out of state person shows up in vicinity on show day..i know this is an extream case..but i doubt these new people will stick with it being new and starting right out with a bad experience...no outward threats were ever made, just insinuations and errily showing up in breed threads that the person really has no interest in just to torment..sounds like shes a little paranoid, but then again we live in a time when you cant even go enjoy a movie anymore, school shootings, burger king shootings, so then again, maybe shes not....i wish i had an answer for this ..

 

[Arielle]

Depending on your needs and wants, a chicken tractor will work for more than just trios if needed.

bob blosi, you should have been a novelist..your stories are so interesting, crankey, teeth and all..there are a lot of good people eagar to get into showing..they do get discouraged if no one is helping them..in the right hands that person or group mght really shine someday.especially kids...another trend i see are people trying to chase people out of showing, or owning a particular breed..maybe for selfish reasons? i dont really know. but these new people could spend good money in clubs, birds , equipment, feed and shows..then they get discouraged and wind up find something better to spend money on..im not sure what the answer to that is...i had a family just getting started, got some decent birds for the kids.......now,.you dont give your kentuckey derby winner to kids, but you give them nice birds to learn with.....talk about discouraged..they no sooner did they say 2 words online and she was stalked, harrassed, ambushed at every turn.... people who are on line say and do things that they would never do to your face..these people are going to go ahead and finish the show season, but there is already talk of peace bond if out of state person shows up in vicinity on show day..i know this is an extream case..but i doubt these new people will stick with it being new and starting right out with a bad experience...no outward threats were ever made, just insinuations and errily showing up in breed threads that the person really has no interest in just to torment..sounds like shes a little paranoid, but then again we live in a time when you cant even go enjoy a movie anymore, school shootings, burger king shootings, so then again, maybe shes not....i wish i had an answer for this ..

A real turn off when there is not enough other good experiences to off set something so frightening. Happens at horse shows too. One woman always removed all traces of the horses name and used plain halters without name plates to disguise her horse and prevent theft of the horse. Always disappointing to hear about the misdeeds of competitors. I for one stopped showing horses and dogs; those new to showing really do need a mentor to guide and buffer the new comers.

Honestly I don't think our world is any less safe than it used to be. People are people. It, the dramatic, just makes the news very quickly now when in the past it would have been played down. ie how many of us heard about JFK's antics until decades later. Now, we get instant footage of the movie theater attack.

Sorry the youngser has had such a terrible experience. Just when the breeds need more supporters of the good lines.

 

[Robert Blosl]

Went to the dentist office at 10 am brought three fishing magazines and read they twice. Got into the chair at after three hours. He finally seen me and a half a hour latter left and he said he did not want to pull the two teeth that where hurting me. So I was tired of sitting and payed my bill and came out $160. richer and have my two old teeth. He said it looks like you can keep them for a few more years.

In regards to my comments I heard on the radio its good not to hold your anger and just let it out. So I did. Didn't I.

I thought about what Jim said if you can help one out ten you did good. I think I got about twenty of you guys interested in Preservation so that's not to bad and a couple of you have done real well in showing and breeding your birds in your rookie years. I think the email I got from the Dad about not having to much support for he in his two daughters really rocked me.

So I have him and one of my friends who wants to show and they are basically asking: I want to show my chickens but I don't know how?

So I think I am going to write a draft basic 101 chickens eight grade level even a Cave Man could do it on how to condtion your chickens for a show. and see how it works out.

I have also given heavy thought that I can not share to much to quick to beginners as it takes nearly three years to just get your feet settled and learn whats going on.

We just need more mentors like Walt and Bill to help out. I am glad they contribute two this thread and the Rhode Island Red tread I started. They are the last of the great Chicken men from the old days and a bonus they are both excellent judges which is a bonus.

Many people just need to learn just how to raise production chickens WELL for three years. Then they need to learn good incubator skills as they should have mastered the brooding skills in the first three years. Line Breeding and all that is going to take longer. A anorther thing you got to learn how to do is listen to your inner self. You got to use your Gut in making decisions.

Well I think I have gotten over my pain and frustrations. I am going to slow down and make a list of all the Plymouth Rock and Rhode Island Red breeders I know and put it in a letter format so I can send it to them when they ask me for these rare breeders. Also, some of the good hatcheries like URCH. Do you know when it comes to Black Javas and Silver Dorkings they all just about came from him in the last ten years. If you want better you are just out of luck unless someone is breeding them up better than him.

I will look forward to your posts and its only a hobby I guess so why take it so seriously.

 

[HallFamilyFarm]

For beginners in the Fancy!

Beginners Guide to Raising and Showing Chickens DVD
An essential tool for novice poultry fanciers.
Contains information on everything from hatching to exhibiting and beyond. Includes section on judging at poultry shows by licensed APA judges.
Price $ 20.00

http://www.amerpoultryassn.com/APA_ShoppingMall3.htm



We have used this for several years to help our begginer youth get started. There are also several books at http://www.amerpoultryassn.com/APA_ShoppingMall3.htm that can help novice and experienced breeders.

There are loads of information aimed at novice youth at http://www.apa-abayouthpoultryclub.org/

Here are some other books available from the APA.
Quote:

 

[HallFamilyFarm]

Here are some of our Black Orpingtons. They are still pure Cecil Moore line with no outcrosses to any other line. Rumor has it we may be the only breeder left with pure lineage. We have sold a lot of hatching eggs these last few years and even some chicks this season. We currently have a juvenile pair offered. PM for details.

Bob and others have cautioned folks on crossing strains. When you locate a great strain, like the Mohawk in RIR and then outcross to a non-related strain, it may take years to return to anything of quality. That is why we have worked so hard to keep our Orpington lines pure. We have also introduced our Cecil Moore line into our Blues and our Self Blues. All of our juvenile Blue Orpingtons and Self Blue Orpingtons are at least 50% Cecil Moore line. It may take us a few generations to get to what we really want, but it will be worth it. We are already seeing great Orpington type in our Self Blue (aka Lavender) Orpingtons. If we did not toe punch, it would be impossible to tell a Split from a Black. We went through our Black juveniles this week. Toe punches was the only way to tell them apart.

Our Blues are looking better and we hope this next season will be better. We will continue to use a CM line Black male in our breeding pens. The size is better and type is great.

As they mature we will post more photos.

Here is a juvenile we sold as a chick. It is now in Indiana.

Some of our breeders.

Some of our juveniles.

 

[Arielle]

I have recently been reading an old 1920 book The Sussex Fowl. I'm intrigued by the level of detail about the varieties. Each variety having separate chapters-2 chapters each, with great detail about the make up of the variety and the specific use of the variety. THis is the kind of information I find very useful in trying to determine what birds will fit my needs; right now I'm using the trial and error method.

Of course the short comings of this book is that I may not be able to readily find the old sussex birds. THe TWo I have now were an eye opener. One hen was big and beefy looking. WIDE. I was used to looking at 18 month SS hens that were small sleek and slim. The latter are hatchery birds. THey still have the personality of the sussex that we have found to be unique and very delightful. It has been suggested to me to use the hatchery hens from Meyers to start; cross them to my ok heritage SS rooster. I'm looking for input. ( I'm still hoping to find some heritage birds--patience)

 

[mississippifarmboy]

In regards to my comments I heard on the radio its good not to hold your anger and just let it out. So I did. Didn't I.

I thought about what Jim said if you can help one out ten you did good. I think I got about twenty of you guys interested in Preservation so that's not to bad and a couple of you have done real well in showing and breeding your birds in your rookie years. I think the email I got from the Dad about not having to much support for he in his two daughters really rocked me.

We just need more mentors like Walt and Bill to help out. I am glad they contribute two this thread and the Rhode Island Red tread I started. They are the last of the great Chicken men from the old days and a bonus they are both excellent judges which is a bonus.

I will look forward to your posts and its only a hobby I guess so why take it so seriously.

Bob,
I understand your frustration. I assume all you guys who are experienced breeders that are here on BYC spend most of your time wanting to pull your hair out. Us new people are a real pain in the butt, I know I have been. Anyone that could look over my old posts, PMs and emails and see just how many serious breeders basically told me to get lost when I asked questions or needed advise would be floored. Because I've raised hatchery grade chickens all my life I guess they thought I wasn't worthy of learning.

But I'm still here and still asking questions.

Why?

Because I am going to learn. I am going to improve. I'm going to be the guy that keeps trying until I get it right. I might not post here, might not be at all the shows... but I refuse to quit. I never was any good at being second best at anything. If I'm going to do it, I want to do it right. In the spring I'll be showing. I expect to place dead last because I am the biggest rookie in the world at raising SOP birds. But I'll learn from the experience and I'll be back at the next show. And the next one. And the next one. And someday.... I will succeed. Because I refuse to quit.

I've been told if I was serious, I'd not even be on BYC. But this is where I am comfortable. I'm not very computer or technology literate. I tend to not "travel" a lot online. But if it wasn't for you Bob, along with several others like Bill, Walt, Al, Chris and a few others I would never have even knew what a true "heritage" chicken was, much less be raising them. But you hooked me with your posts and pictures. Made me curious enough to ask even more questions, buy the SOP. (Several actually), and now I'm raising some fowl that I can be proud of. And I'm not the only one. I know Fred, Junior and a few others are serious too. One in 10 or 20? More like one in a hundred. But a few of us are listening.

You guys are my mentors. The people I trust. I'm blessed to know I have at least a few people that I can ask a poultry related question of and get a straight answer. Unlike some folks, if I ask a question, I want an honest answer, not some fluffy fu-fu smoothed over version. I might not enjoy being set straight, I am human after all, but I appreciate the honesty of it and I pride myself on never making the same mistake twice.

So please, don't let it get to you. Just keep posting and we'll keep learning. You guys never know who is reading every post you make. You don't know whose life you are touching.

It's been a really long day, I'm tired, very sick and grumpy, so going to go feed, milk and sit and watch the chickens for a while.