Bob Blosl's Heritage Large Fowl Thread

[Pozees]

I got my original Buckeyes from him in 2005-06 and recently, I got a trio of La Fleche from him (and very happy to get some). I managed to lasso Duane to judge our Buckeyes at Ohio National (although he did not judge the rest of the American Class which never sets you right). He looked in good health & sound mind at ON. It was important for me that he judge the Buckeyes this year. He knows the breed exceedingly well, is overall a superb judge of poultry and hugely responsible for their continued existence. I also like the fact that he keeps his breeds pure and does breed other things into them.

I'm taking your meaning as NOT breeding other things into them I am sincerely hoping he has a pair or trio he's willing to sell, guess time will tell.

 

[buffalogal]

About the Buckeye, one breeder at the Ohio National a few weeks ago told me (and I agree), "the Buckeye is a farm chicken, a homestead fowl, that we clean up and bring to the show." That is literally true. Mine are running around in the pasture, the barns, the forest, the front yard, all about. A couple of weeks before the show, I look around as to who looks good, catch a few, weigh them, look them over, cage the ones I think are or will show well at that time for the first time, give 'em a bath a week before and show them -- no pampering, nothing special.

Add "Ancona and Dominique" to that "Buckeye" and that's how I do it too. I chose these breeds because they had a reputation of doing well in a traditional free range operation (as opposed to the modern definition), and that is exactly how I raise them.

 

[cgmccary]

Quote: YES. He says that and I believe him. Add to it that he has had many breeds a very long time. The Buckeye he acquired in 1958. The La Fleche in the late 1960s -- so many generations and NOT breeding other breeds into them.

 

[cgmccary]

Quote: I use a digital kitchen scale for weighing similar to: http://www.bedbathandbeyond.com/product.asp?SKU=40596600&RN=1151&

The challenge is to get the bird to still a few seconds. I bring the bird into my mudroom and have the scales sitting on the floor. It sometimes takes a few times putting the bird on the scales. My scales are just large enough for me to get both of the bird's feet on it.

Don Schrider uses a square bucket & puts the bird in the bucket and uses hanging scales.

 

[cgmccary]

Quote: Best to call him now before he culls down to his over-winter flock if he hasn't already.

 

[thedragonlady]

It's funny that you posted all of that because my mind changed in about 5 seconds after I posted that reply (you can read my opinion on owning cully birds in a recent thread I made). After taking time to actually think about it - I wouldn't want a chicken that would otherwise be culled, because I don't think that would be responsible on my part or the part of the breeder to let a chicken out of their hands that wasn't up to par. I see what you mean about different definitions of a "cull" and how one breeder may differ in their preferences versus another. My main thing is that I never want to have a purebred chicken with a flaw...even if I'm not breeding they can escape and someone else can breed them and then I just helped someone propagate the Earth with a flawed breed. =/

It's a shame there are no blood tests that would markedly say "Your chicken has or does not have this and that"...but I guess there aren't blood tests for everything in the "people" world either.

Thank you so much for taking the time to reply to my post and answering some questions I had. I'm looking to learn all I can.

Every chicken I have ever met, in over 50 years, has a flaw or two . It depends on what, and how severe the flaw is, as to weather it should be bred. Reputable breeders eat the severly flawed birds, or see that they are eaten. They do not sell them as breeders.

 

[CluckyCharms]

Every chicken I have ever met, in over 50 years, has a flaw or two . It depends on what, and how severe the flaw is, as to weather it should be bred. Reputable breeders eat the severly flawed birds, or see that they are eaten. They do not sell them as breeders.

exactly - reputable breeders such as yourself and many others, but not everyone breeds with a set of ethics like you and others do. =( I'm not referring to personal preference flaws, because I know all breeders are different. I'm referring to flaws that would disqualify a bird from meeting the SOP of his or her breed - vulture hocks in a brahma is just the example I use...but there are many different ones. Or...illnesses that people don't take the time to cull because it's such a rare bird that a wry neck doesn't matter? lol It's things like that that really perturb me. =/

 

[FeyRaine]

@cgmccary That is exactly why I am looking for Buckeyes. But now, I'm a little concerned being told they require the 30% protein starter b/c that doesn't feel like what they would have been getting on a homestead back when, & my goal is to get my homestead animals away from feed store feeds as I am able to produce our own feeds here on farm (not there yet, but aiming towards it). BTW- I had exactly this issue w/ rabbits, all the production/modern meat breeds require such specialized high protein feed that it didn't work out for us to raise them, just not functional on a small scale. I get the economy of scale, grow fast protein conversion plan for big commercial producers, but that is just opposite of the needs of someone aiming for self-sufficient homestead food production.

So in the opinion of those more knowledgeable than I, would any of the Lg breed in need of preservation dual purpose breeds be better (than Buckeye) for a real old fashioned homestead situation like I have here. I had settled on Buckeye but I am open to being told there is a better choice for me. I'm ready to take the step to a rare old breed to help keep the gene pool going but it helps nobody if I pick a bad match for me.

(I'm in the mtns & have had temps on rare occations to -20F in winter, but also sometimes to 80F in Dec & Jan, snow to 12 inches as late as April, Summer droughts 5-8 wks long, temps over 100 for up to 3 wks running.) I need a cold & heat hardy bird that will give me above avg. egg production, and culls dress out to something better than a game hen size, something w/ real meat on it. It is a lot to ask of one breed I know, but they do not need to be fast maturing (I can give up some time in trade for their ability to self feed to some extent on free range). I feel like my situation is very much like the folks 100-200 yrs ago so surely their breeds are where I need to seek for a bird that can fill that need. I'm very interested in the opinions on best breed for me from those on this wonderful thread, most of you clearly know far more than I do about these breeds....

All input welcome
Thanks
FeyRaine

 

[cgmccary]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Quote:[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Then you'll never have one because there is not one without a flaw.[/FONT]

Quote: True, there are no perfect birds. I would never breed or let another breed a severely flawed bird but if I never bred a flawed bird, then I would not be breeding. All my birds have some flaws, never perfect. My culls mean that I am not going to use them for breeding for one reason or another. Also, sometimes, I use a bird one time and not again (I sell or give these away to another breeder who needs what the bird has). It doesn't mean it is not a good bird but that either, for instance, (1) I got a better offspring (say a cockerel-son) to breed in that pen or (2) I do not want to exaggerate whatever flaw it is (like I'd use a purple Buckeye once if it had perfect type).

In 2008, I had a great crop of Buckeye cockerels. A friend stopped by and said he'd take all that I did not want but did not want to eat. I was only keeping one as I lived in the city and was limited in space. I told him, "I might come back and need one of these in the future so hang on to at least one." They were decent, nice ones. He took about 7 or 8 of the better ones. When I was moving to the country in 2010, I had to move my flock to another friend's farm . The one particular cock I had kept in 2008 was a superb specimen and another Buckeye breeder wanted to use him to breed over his hens (while I was moving). He got him and he got killed while at his place (I never got the full story). When I moved to the country in 2010, I phoned the friend who had taken the 8 males. A predator had got in his pen and killed all but one. That one got shipped to another farm (where there weren't any other Buckeyes) -- the farm he went to just loved him so we had to buy him (and they had made the promise they would sell him to me if I asked). The one recovered surviving male turned out to be the one that would have been my second choice. I hatched off that male again this year. Some of the recovered survivors' offspring I hatched June 20, 2012 (Summer Soltice) -below- drinking out of the waterers. I will only keep one cockerel from this bunch but have narrowed it down to two. The one I don't keep will be a cull but a good bird for someone (as I cannot decide-- they both have things I like and dislike) -- but it would not be an injustice to breed the one I let go as it is a good bird too (I just don't need two from the same group):





Anyway, if you are only keeping hens and not breeding, what difference does it make to you? Wouldn't an average breeder know not to breed a severely flawed bird anyway so there would not be any chance of "even if I'm not breeding they can escape and someone else can breed them," OR at the very least the breeder SHOULD KNOW not to breed them just by looking? If the breeder doesn't know, then they are not a good breeder anyway. People breed hatchery stock all the time of all the different breeds. Isn't that what the hatcheries do? Breed irresponsibly? My point is, it is perfectly logical and ethical to sell culls. One person's culls is a gift to another. The Buckeyes I started with, the male actually, was severely flawed by my standards now -- he would not get past 16 weeks of age. At that time, as a beginner, I was thrilled to have him as any beginner should be (no matter he was 2-3 lbs underweight, too light in overall color, black splotched breast, thin). Well here, this was what I started with & bred ONE time with: http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s38/cgmccary/IM000696_0006.jpg

Buckeye cockerel now (one of many):





I was happy to have something to work with. Again, I am starting with some La Fleche. They are very small. Hopefully, they will be what I would cull in some years. Not now. I am pleased to have them. (the La Fleche cockerel weighs just over 4 lbs and the pullets are about 3 lbs 10 ozs but laying). They are a rare breed. You get what you can. You work with what you got. The journey is the best part. Taking it and improving it. The whole instant gratification thing we have going and not wanting to work toward some goal sometimes is appalling to me.

 

[cgmccary]

Quote:
NOBODY is suggesting selling sick birds or birds with wry necks or any such thing. That is not what any breeder means by selling culls. I culled the Best of Breed Buckeye at the 2012 Ohio National (out of 36 shown in the open) -- I dropped him off at a friend's (who is an established breeder) on the way home -- he was one of the best I'd seen around & I knew he'd take BB. I have the Sire who looks just like him so I don't really need him. I loved the bird but don't need two.