I have a digital kitchen scale that I put a box on, zero the scale out, and put the chicken in the box.
Bob Blosl's Heritage Large Fowl Thread
- Thread starter Robert Blosl
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They will not grow optimally without the higher protein. If you free range them on pasture, you will still feed them some feed but you will find that they get the higher protein from the insects & whatever else they are scrapping up for themselves (on the Buckeye thread, I posted a video of young Buckeyes running around my cows catching those large horseflies).
To experiment, I penned raised one group and pasture/ free ranged another group and saw no noticeable difference in their size. The free ranged birds had feed available to them and did eat it too (just not as much). The penned raised birds had only feed. Buckeyes are voracious eaters. They eat anything that moves and then some things they shouldn't. The free range birds will surround the dogs eating outside and eat the dog food. The dogs have to eat in a hurry because the Buckeyes will go right up and eat it out of the bowl while the dog is eating. The dogs are overwhelmed by the numbers. I have to feed the dogs after dark so they can eat. You want a breed that will eat and grow. I still believe you should make sure they are eating all they can by providing open range feeders as I do. The greatest compliment on my Buckeyes I have received is from a woman in Illinois who said she hatched, raised and butchered about 300 Buckeyes this past year, some from my line, and that they did very well on pasture. She sells locally to people and has a good market for them.
They will not grow optimally without the higher protein. If you free range them on pasture, you will still feed them some feed but you will find that they get the higher protein from the insects & whatever else they are scrapping up for themselves (on the Buckeye thread, I posted a video of young Buckeyes running around my cows catching those large horseflies).
To experiment, I penned raised one group and pasture/ free ranged another group and saw no noticeable difference in their size. The free ranged birds had feed available to them and did eat it too (just not as much). The penned raised birds had only feed. Buckeyes are voracious eaters. They eat anything that moves and then some things they shouldn't. The free range birds will surround the dogs eating outside and eat the dog food. The dogs have to eat in a hurry because the Buckeyes will go right up and eat it out of the bowl while the dog is eating. The dogs are overwhelmed by the numbers. I have to feed the dogs after dark so they can eat. You want a breed that will eat and grow. I still believe you should make sure they are eating all they can by providing open range feeders as I do. The greatest compliment on my Buckeyes I have received is from a woman in Illinois who said she hatched, raised and butchered about 300 Buckeyes this past year, some from my line, and that they did very well on pasture. She sells locally to people and has a good market for them.
cgmccary,
If you have a problem with me I wish you'd just sort it out with me instead of trolling me to certain forum death
When I say flaw I mean a flaw that would hamper an otherwise perfectly healthy bird from meeting the standards of the SOP. I don't mind owning a bird that would otherwise be a cull...but I want chickens that do meet the SOP if they are supposed to be a certain breed, I want them to measure up to the standard of that breed; that is my only point. I'm not accusing anyone of "suggesting" poor examples be sold to people...not sure where you found that in what I said prior...perhaps I may have formed a thought incorrectly somewhere in what I wrote, but I don't think I did, just like I never said possums were rodents.
In any case, I thank those of you who have taken an active interest in helping me ascertain what I'd like to do with regard to Heritage breeds. Your input is extremely helpful and I appreciate all of it.
If you have a problem with me I wish you'd just sort it out with me instead of trolling me to certain forum death
When I say flaw I mean a flaw that would hamper an otherwise perfectly healthy bird from meeting the standards of the SOP. I don't mind owning a bird that would otherwise be a cull...but I want chickens that do meet the SOP if they are supposed to be a certain breed, I want them to measure up to the standard of that breed; that is my only point. I'm not accusing anyone of "suggesting" poor examples be sold to people...not sure where you found that in what I said prior...perhaps I may have formed a thought incorrectly somewhere in what I wrote, but I don't think I did, just like I never said possums were rodents.
In any case, I thank those of you who have taken an active interest in helping me ascertain what I'd like to do with regard to Heritage breeds. Your input is extremely helpful and I appreciate all of it.
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Disagreeing with you is not trolling.
The joy of keeping and raising heritage birds does not come from having perfect birds but really, it is from working toward a goal -- at least for me. When I see people making an issue because they are starting with good, decent stock, but never perfect stock, then I am always going to point out the flaw in the logic. Some of these breeds are rare. When I got my first Buckeyes, they were very rare. They are more common nowadays (not out of the woods completely) and a number of breeders have worked really hard making it so.
The fact is most chicken folks are still in the stage of learning good poultry husbandry (proper housing, predator control, feeding, chick care, illness, parasites, etc.). I feel like I am beginning all over each year when I find the mites (I swear I'd quit if I had to endure more than about once a year.) I had chickens as a a child, growing up, and learned most of that way back then. Today, things are a lot easier. Good feeds, equipment, more science . . . but still, most folks need to get down the basics of good care . . try some hatchery stock first. Or start with a simple trio. If you just want some good laying hens and can't have roosters then the point is really moot, & one should get some hatchery stock hens, get the husbandry down first and you will know when you want to tackle an old, rare breed, if ever. The hatchery stock hens are perfectly fine for eggs. They have been bred to lay lots of eggs. If you can and decide to get an old rare breed, you will know then that you just need some stock with some good genes, flaws and all, but good genes. It all goes back to Mr. Blosi saying he is talking to 1/2 of 1%. I agree with Blosi. I don't want that .5 % thinking they need to start with something that ought to be perfect, that's all. This thread has been pretty special in talking about some of these old breeds. In fact, I am most proud of those La Fleche out there. They need a lot of work. They need someone dedicated to them. I promise, if I am alive, you will see some of them at the shows in a few years. I don't have a problem with you but with some of your logic. ("possums were rodents," you're cracking me up -- I mean that in a humorous way now that I went back up and saw your reply -- that one can just stay between you and me, LOL)
The joy of keeping and raising heritage birds does not come from having perfect birds but really, it is from working toward a goal -- at least for me. When I see people making an issue because they are starting with good, decent stock, but never perfect stock, then I am always going to point out the flaw in the logic. Some of these breeds are rare. When I got my first Buckeyes, they were very rare. They are more common nowadays (not out of the woods completely) and a number of breeders have worked really hard making it so.
The fact is most chicken folks are still in the stage of learning good poultry husbandry (proper housing, predator control, feeding, chick care, illness, parasites, etc.). I feel like I am beginning all over each year when I find the mites (I swear I'd quit if I had to endure more than about once a year.) I had chickens as a a child, growing up, and learned most of that way back then. Today, things are a lot easier. Good feeds, equipment, more science . . . but still, most folks need to get down the basics of good care . . try some hatchery stock first. Or start with a simple trio. If you just want some good laying hens and can't have roosters then the point is really moot, & one should get some hatchery stock hens, get the husbandry down first and you will know when you want to tackle an old, rare breed, if ever. The hatchery stock hens are perfectly fine for eggs. They have been bred to lay lots of eggs. If you can and decide to get an old rare breed, you will know then that you just need some stock with some good genes, flaws and all, but good genes. It all goes back to Mr. Blosi saying he is talking to 1/2 of 1%. I agree with Blosi. I don't want that .5 % thinking they need to start with something that ought to be perfect, that's all. This thread has been pretty special in talking about some of these old breeds. In fact, I am most proud of those La Fleche out there. They need a lot of work. They need someone dedicated to them. I promise, if I am alive, you will see some of them at the shows in a few years. I don't have a problem with you but with some of your logic. ("possums were rodents," you're cracking me up -- I mean that in a humorous way now that I went back up and saw your reply -- that one can just stay between you and me, LOL)
Ok so I'm still on target w/ Buckeyes then. We have 30 acres so plenty of space for free range provided the birds don't feed themselves to all the preditors.
We are working on a protein (read maggot) feeder to hang in the pasture also so we can recycle hog butcher waist etc. into extra protein for the birds esp. in winter. It is my understanding that is a very traditional way to up the protein available to the flock in a trying to be self-sufficient homestead. We are working out this protein feeder on my mutt & hatchery flock b/f getting the rare birds in 2013.
I've also undertaken sprouting oats & growing wheat fodder (having to purchase the gains but still think this makes wise use of a % of the feed budget). Based on your work w/ the Buckeyes do you think I'm on the right track w/ that for a portion of their feed in winter when free range does not offer much. I believe the wheat fodder is rated 20% protein.
Thanks for sharing your penned vs free-range project, that makes me feel more comfortable that Buckeyes will work here. Both b/c I intend to free-range them as much as possible, but also b/c it shows they will handle being penned sometimes. We don't let the birds free-range on days when the mountain lion is hanging around for example. So I'm glad to know the Buckeyes actually _can_ be penned, b/f I found BYC I just figured I'd have to try it to find out. Very nice to have ppl who have been there done that share w/ the rest of us.
I am on a waiting list for Icelandic chicks in May. I will need to keep the birds apart. I was thinking alternate days for free range. Unless I can space them far enough. In your opinion how far away would I need the coop/yardpens to be between the Buckeyes & any other birds that I could allow to free range at the same time w/o fear of them mixing in any way? (or should I just stick to alternate days loose?)
FeyRaine
We are working on a protein (read maggot) feeder to hang in the pasture also so we can recycle hog butcher waist etc. into extra protein for the birds esp. in winter. It is my understanding that is a very traditional way to up the protein available to the flock in a trying to be self-sufficient homestead. We are working out this protein feeder on my mutt & hatchery flock b/f getting the rare birds in 2013.
I've also undertaken sprouting oats & growing wheat fodder (having to purchase the gains but still think this makes wise use of a % of the feed budget). Based on your work w/ the Buckeyes do you think I'm on the right track w/ that for a portion of their feed in winter when free range does not offer much. I believe the wheat fodder is rated 20% protein.
Thanks for sharing your penned vs free-range project, that makes me feel more comfortable that Buckeyes will work here. Both b/c I intend to free-range them as much as possible, but also b/c it shows they will handle being penned sometimes. We don't let the birds free-range on days when the mountain lion is hanging around for example. So I'm glad to know the Buckeyes actually _can_ be penned, b/f I found BYC I just figured I'd have to try it to find out. Very nice to have ppl who have been there done that share w/ the rest of us.
I am on a waiting list for Icelandic chicks in May. I will need to keep the birds apart. I was thinking alternate days for free range. Unless I can space them far enough. In your opinion how far away would I need the coop/yardpens to be between the Buckeyes & any other birds that I could allow to free range at the same time w/o fear of them mixing in any way? (or should I just stick to alternate days loose?)
FeyRaine
- May 19, 2009
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Yes, you can breed it out. Just need one of the partners to not have that gene.
Best,
Karen
- May 19, 2009
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@cgmccary That is exactly why I am looking for Buckeyes. But now, I'm a little concerned being told they require the 30% protein starter b/c that doesn't feel like what they would have been getting on a homestead back when, & my goal is to get my homestead animals away from feed store feeds as I am able to produce our own feeds here on farm (not there yet, but aiming towards it). BTW- I had exactly this issue w/ rabbits, all the production/modern meat breeds require such specialized high protein feed that it didn't work out for us to raise them, just not functional on a small scale. I get the economy of scale, grow fast protein conversion plan for big commercial producers, but that is just opposite of the needs of someone aiming for self-sufficient homestead food production.
So in the opinion of those more knowledgeable than I, would any of the Lg breed in need of preservation dual purpose breeds be better (than Buckeye) for a real old fashioned homestead situation like I have here. I had settled on Buckeye but I am open to being told there is a better choice for me. I'm ready to take the step to a rare old breed to help keep the gene pool going but it helps nobody if I pick a bad match for me.
(I'm in the mtns & have had temps on rare occasions to -20F in winter, but also sometimes to 80F in Dec & Jan, snow to 12 inches as late as April, Summer droughts 5-8 wks long, temps over 100 for up to 3 wks running.) I need a cold & heat hardy bird that will give me above avg. egg production, and culls dress out to something better than a game hen size, something w/ real meat on it. It is a lot to ask of one breed I know, but they do not need to be fast maturing (I can give up some time in trade for their ability to self feed to some extent on free range). I feel like my situation is very much like the folks 100-200 yrs ago so surely their breeds are where I need to seek for a bird that can fill that need. I'm very interested in the opinions on best breed for me from those on this wonderful thread, most of you clearly know far more than I do about these breeds....
All input welcome
Thanks
FeyRaine
=====================
Well, it's your decision. I understand why you want to do it right the first time. I am reading a non-fiction narrative book about a lady who homesteaded in Burnt Cabin, Wyoming circa 1889. She particularly mentions her Plymouth Rocks and all the excellent eggs they give her. I know there are some very vintage lines of them out there. Buckeye is a good breed.
Best,
Karen
Quote:
I would not be able to free range my birds if my situation was not ideal. I have some good dogs and a donkey. I cannot overemphasize what good dog or dogs will do for you. I am blessed with good dogs. The Buckeyes sometimes scare me because they free range far and wide. I did loose a pullet in the summer, but they were going out too far in the woods. I think you are spot on with your feeding plan. I went and tried to get the "sawdust" from the local butcher so I could feed meat scraps to my Buckeyes -- they thought I was insane so I got nowhere. Your plan is good for this breed because they love to eat all things. I have even fed my live, jumping fathead minnows. Once, one of my Buckeye hens caught, killed and collectively tore apart and ate a Chipmunk. I let most all my birds out to free range except when I have breeding pens and am collecting eggs. The breeders I pen up and collect eggs from the chosen ones. Then after I have collected eggs (about January-April usually), then I make sure everybody gets turned out for the hottest part of the summer so they can get proper shade and all. The coops get really hot in the hard part of summer. The Buckeye males rarely fight and each coop's male respects the others although when they do fight, it is bad.
Buckeyes are heavy and when they get big enough, they lose the ability to fly up very high. So a five foot barrier works for all but the strongest flying hen. I have also done the alternate days out during the breeding season or when I have a "fighting" problem so that the flocks don't mix. Each group puts itself up in their coop (I have 3 large Buckeye coops with almost an equal number of hens in each-- all will not be bred. I go in each evening and do a count to make sure all have made it in. I breed from my old proven hens. I figure they have endured summers, disease, predators, pestilence, and I want their toughness in my flock. There is a good Buckeye breeder very near you in Dalton, GA too. I say try the alternate days loose during the breeding season and see how that works for you. I have got to work in my La Fleche flock eventually and plan to do something of the same. Right now, with just a trio, I keep them penned.
I would not be able to free range my birds if my situation was not ideal. I have some good dogs and a donkey. I cannot overemphasize what good dog or dogs will do for you. I am blessed with good dogs. The Buckeyes sometimes scare me because they free range far and wide. I did loose a pullet in the summer, but they were going out too far in the woods. I think you are spot on with your feeding plan. I went and tried to get the "sawdust" from the local butcher so I could feed meat scraps to my Buckeyes -- they thought I was insane so I got nowhere. Your plan is good for this breed because they love to eat all things. I have even fed my live, jumping fathead minnows. Once, one of my Buckeye hens caught, killed and collectively tore apart and ate a Chipmunk. I let most all my birds out to free range except when I have breeding pens and am collecting eggs. The breeders I pen up and collect eggs from the chosen ones. Then after I have collected eggs (about January-April usually), then I make sure everybody gets turned out for the hottest part of the summer so they can get proper shade and all. The coops get really hot in the hard part of summer. The Buckeye males rarely fight and each coop's male respects the others although when they do fight, it is bad.
Buckeyes are heavy and when they get big enough, they lose the ability to fly up very high. So a five foot barrier works for all but the strongest flying hen. I have also done the alternate days out during the breeding season or when I have a "fighting" problem so that the flocks don't mix. Each group puts itself up in their coop (I have 3 large Buckeye coops with almost an equal number of hens in each-- all will not be bred. I go in each evening and do a count to make sure all have made it in. I breed from my old proven hens. I figure they have endured summers, disease, predators, pestilence, and I want their toughness in my flock. There is a good Buckeye breeder very near you in Dalton, GA too. I say try the alternate days loose during the breeding season and see how that works for you. I have got to work in my La Fleche flock eventually and plan to do something of the same. Right now, with just a trio, I keep them penned.
Also, we need to take this Buckeye discussion over to the Buckeye thread. Blosi, Walt & Co. will throw us out of here if we talk too much about Buckeyes, I have probably said too much already. I'll have to go and put up or shut up at that Panhandle show or something.
hahaha, funny, Chris. I have enjoyed your posts, as usual.
It's always nice to see you posting. You are always very helpful, and you are appreciated.
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