Bob Blosl's Heritage Large Fowl Thread

[buffalogal]

Lineage isn't about chickens...and yes, my stupid little guppies have lineages. A lineage is nothing more and nothing less than "descent from a common progenitor" defined. ....anything can have a lineage if it procreates, even guppies.

With regard to heritage breeds - (trying to get back on topic, lol) - Silkies confuse me. Some say they are large fowl and some say they are bantams, and some say that those who call them bantams are mistaken, and that they are large fowl and just small in stature. So which is it? Thanks!

No one said your Guppies didn't have a "lineage". I said a tank full of guppies breeding at random is not going to create a "line". There is a difference, even if you don't see it.

 

[Yard full o' rocks]

Do all your males have the brassiness?

I'm hoping some of the master breeder's will comment on what you are planning to do.

I'm curious because I have brassiness in my male Delaware.

Each and every one of my males has brassiness....some worse that others. There is a genetics article in the attached link that got me to thinking

http://www.exhibitionpoultry.net/

I was able to discuss the issue with a genetics expert and it was determined that on the E locus all birds have "Aph", but only some have "Aph-I" which inhibits the expression of gold in the hackles/saddles/shoulder areas. Therefore, I am crossing my LEAST brassy male Columbian Rock to a good quality Barred Female (which shows no hint of gold or earth tones in her feathering). Resulting offspring, F1, will be "barred" males and solid black females. I will keep the black females to breed back to a CR male again. F2s should be a combination of 50% solid black males/females and 50% columbian males/females. Will be looking for significant reduction of brassiness in F2 Columbian males. If this is accomplished, they will have 1/2 the dose necessary of "Aph-I". Will take that male and mate him back to his mother and resulting males "should" then have full dose of "Aph-I" and resulting males have no brassiness. This is the plan, anyway. Hope this makes some sense as I an a "genetics dummy". Other breeds/varieties could be used, but we've chosen Barred Rocks so as not to affect type too drastically

 

[CluckyCharms]

But Walt, that is my point. A *good* breeder isn't randomly breeding anything. They are carefully selecting what male to put with the female, and yes, you can look at a good breeder's stock or carefully bred birds derived from a good breeder's stock and see some trait that will make you think "Uh huh. Great topline. I bet that's out of Mr X's line." IMHO, random breeding will never create a "line".

Randomly breeding will cause some seriously murky and fubar lines - but they are still lineage (a line). It's the same in dog breeding. Backyard breeders without a clue still have lines in their breeding pens...but those lines sure as heck aren't the same as a dedicated and devoted show breeder of quality dogs. A line is a line is a line, it's just that some are much better than others.

 

[BarnGoddess01]

Quote:
One of the points made yesterday - he culls maybe 4 out of 25 hatched each year - and when he culls he SELLS! The impression I got yesterday, when a "line" is well defined, there isn't much "junk" to deal with. In other words, he doesn't really need to be that careful because almost everything he produces reflects his line and has real value.

Oh, how I long for the day when I can be that confident ....

 

[CluckyCharms]

This isn't a question about large fowl heritage breeds, but I'm going to ask it here anyway since I've noticed the people on this thread tend to have a lot more experience. That and I have noticed that some of the other conversations here don't revolve around heritage breeds, too. =)

We have 2 Norwegian Jaerhons that are 100% completely feathered out - heads and all. They're also quite large. It's not that cold here...it's 48 celcius right now, with no wind. Their coop is here and it's 100% sealed IE: no drafts at all.

Are they seriously too young to be placed in their coop on their own? They haven't had any sort of heat lamp or heat at all in the house for 2 weeks now and have done just fine without it. They're kept in a 60 degree room with no issues (in our house) with a fan on low setting (wanted to get them acclimated to the cold sooner).

They were hatched on October 26th and it is now November 25th so they are a little over 4 weeks old...I know..young still. But, they are fully feathered (even their heads). I had one of them outside tonight for about 2 hours in the cold (holding him) while we were looking at the coop and speaking with the builder...and he (the chicken) seemed perfectly fine out there in the cold...didn't seem to bother him a bit, he just sort of slumped down and fell asleep in my hands actually.

So...do I really have to wait another 4 weeks (when they're 8 weeks) to put them outside with all that feathering on them? If so...I will.

 

[heritagehabitatfarms]

where are u located??? i don't know what 48 Celsius is lol... the other thing that jumped out at me was (Their coop is here and it's 100% sealed IE: no drafts at all.) they must have proper ventilation... that can be worse than the cold... in my experience its more about body mass at that age... the smaller the body the harder it is to regulate internal temperature... so being fully feathered does help much... but the older and bigger a bird is the better it can keep its own temps up...

This isn't a question about large fowl heritage breeds, but I'm going to ask it here anyway since I've noticed the people on this thread tend to have a lot more experience. That and I have noticed that some of the other conversations here don't revolve around heritage breeds, too. =)

We have 2 Norwegian Jaerhons that are 100% completely feathered out - heads and all. They're also quite large. It's not that cold here...it's 48 celcius right now, with no wind. Their coop is here and it's 100% sealed IE: no drafts at all.

Are they seriously too young to be placed in their coop on their own? They haven't had any sort of heat lamp or heat at all in the house for 2 weeks now and have done just fine without it. They're kept in a 60 degree room with no issues (in our house) with a fan on low setting (wanted to get them acclimated to the cold sooner).

They were hatched on October 26th and it is now November 25th so they are a little over 4 weeks old...I know..young still. But, they are fully feathered (even their heads). I had one of them outside tonight for about 2 hours in the cold (holding him) while we were looking at the coop and speaking with the builder...and he (the chicken) seemed perfectly fine out there in the cold...didn't seem to bother him a bit, he just sort of slumped down and fell asleep in my hands actually.

So...do I really have to wait another 4 weeks (when they're 8 weeks) to put them outside with all that feathering on them? If so...I will.

 

[kathyinmo]

It's not that cold here...it's 48 celcius right now, with no wind.

48 Celsius = 118 Fahrenheit

 

[CluckyCharms]

sealed meaning they're not getting out and nothing is getting in There's a nice ventilation system installed. Sorry I wasn't very clear on that hehe
They are a smaller breed anyway (they're not intended to be large, even though they're large fowl) but in regard to size...I'm not sure how I can explain that and I don't have a camera right now. They're huge in my opinion, but keep in mind I've been staring at baby week old chicks all day.

If they have to stay inside for longer, that's okay. I don't mind having them in the house, they're actually very well-behaved...it's just that on the other hand - I don't want to be babying them if it's not needed by them, either.

 

[CluckyCharms]

48 Celsius = 118 Fahrenheit

Thank you Kathy. =)

 

[Robert Blosl]

According to the SOP Glossary of Technical Terms....

"Strain - Fowl of any breed or variety that have been bred as a closed population for a number of years and which reproduce uniform characteristics with marked regularity."

There is no definition listed for "line".

I think a line is the same as a strain. Old timers used that term. I may use that as well no big deal you get you a pair or trio or two from a good breeder of your favorite line or strain such as Mottled Javas and hammer away. You dont go out and cross new blood from someone else or cross a black Java onto this old line or strain. You just set goals for three years and plow ahead.

In my case I have a old cock bird and two hens. Dont know if they are brothers or sisters or what. My job is to reproduce this LINE of fowl and make young stock then I got to get more and more and breed them back to the parents and set up FAMILY LINES. There you go another line. Then maybe in two years I can share birds with say two new breeders and they will start a new line or the same strain as mine or Dr. McGraws line or strain.

Who's on first, second base third base remember that one with Abbot and Costello?

Same stuff. dont worry about it.

Will the standard help me with this project Walt? I dont think so except for the picture for type.

Are GUPPIES Walt like Seromas? I want some.

Hope this helps on the line issue. It may be old west coast talk in chickens from the 1950s also. bob