Brahma Thread

[big medicine]

OMG doing multiple quotes is a pain in the butt - Thanks for you answer Tim, I value your opinion and am looking at the long haul and not the short term in my own ditzing around with stuff. I love a particular color (double laced white) and I love the Brahma breed. Since the Dark Brahma has 1/2 the ingredient to make double laced white, and I have Barnvelders, I thought it might be a fun long term project. The emphasis being LONG term.

However; I have seen so much trash being sold as "rare" that I don't in any way want to contribute to that. I am trying to get top notch Darks to start with and keep a line of, but that is proving frustrating as they are not easy to find. I am working with one person on this thread to ship to me when it cools down, but would also like to have a couple of unrelated lines. (I can tell you that the Barnvelders are a nightmare as they have been so inbred). I can't find anyone to get eggs from that I know is reputable and some of the birds I have seen listed as "Dark Brahma" are the wrong color, the wrong conformation and then I don't know if I can trust the photo's of the decent ones I have seen from other sellers (Ebay and BYC) as being accurate - having been burned before.

I guess my point is that I half agree. I think bringing some new color into the breed would be good for the growth and popularity but that is has to be done carefully and correctly or we end up with a bunch of junk not even coming close to SOP, and I would never want that to happen. I would like to do this project but want to go about it in the right manner with the right foundation stock.

What is Big Medicine working on? I cant' remember, I read so much. And feel free to tell me what you think, honestly, as I very much value your expertise. I don't get offended by honesty.

And on another note - How do we improve our Darks? Do we cross with excellent Lights and then back breed or do we just keep trucking with Dark to Dark? I ask this as I did pick up the most excellent lights I mentioned a while ago and will breed them just because (proven show stock, the guy had to let his birds go after an accident) but would also like to use them as improvement birds as well, unless it is totally going to mess things up. Any insight? I did ask that question before but got mixed answers. I will post pics next week - had surgery and can't go out with the birds yet...

Helen

I can relate, only it was the silver single laced pattern that caught my eye.

I believe I might consider an alternative path to get to a silver double lace Brahma. The way I read it, silver penciled (dark Brahma) has everything you need but MI (melonotic). What I would do is cross to a silver laced Brahma, which has everything you need, (including MI), but does have Co (columbian), which you don't need. You could avoid having to deal with gold, single comb, clean legs, and a completely different body type by going this route. According to Henk's calculator, should be do-able in two generations. The original silver laced Cochin/white Cornish cross that started me on the path to silver laced Brahmas was a silver double laced pullet.

As far as what I'm currently working on. Still have the (single) silver laced , blue laced red, (the typiest pullet I hatched last year is a double laced blue laced red), and started putzing around with a blue/splash red columbian color.

Now to Tim's comment, my knowledge of genetics is pretty much limited to anything I needed to learn for these projects, there are many, far better educated folks that frequent this forum.

I think the most important thing with these projects, or breeding in general, is knowing and recognizing what proper Brahma type is. Having a pea comb and feathered legs do not make a Brahma.

 

[big medicine]

Not sure why it double tripped there.

 

[kendradillon]

Anybody help out? If not this is what works for me.

First: Get them away from everybody else. DO NOT put them in the house. I had some in the house for 2 weeks and never got better. They really need to be outside. When it was cold at night i would put them in the shed. I used a very big dog metal carrier. Put a stick so they can roost on. Enough room for food and water.
 
Secondly: Get Tylan 50. Do not give the recommended dose of 1/2 cc shot for 3 days. You will be wasting your time. Give them 1cc just under the skin of the breast. Make sure no blood is coming into the needle.
 
Thirdly: Get some VetRx. Put a good drop in each nostril. Then rub it in,. So they breathe it in. Then put 3 drops down there throat. The water bowl put 5 drops in it. Do this part every day.
 
In 2-3 days she will be back scratching and moving around. After about the third or fourth day she will be able to go back with the rest. This will work!!! 

She's herself and scratching but just the wierd cough/sneeze n open mouth breathing

 

[kendradillon]

Anybody help out? If not this is what works for me.

First: Get them away from everybody else. DO NOT put them in the house. I had some in the house for 2 weeks and never got better. They really need to be outside. When it was cold at night i would put them in the shed. I used a very big dog metal carrier. Put a stick so they can roost on. Enough room for food and water.
 
Secondly: Get Tylan 50. Do not give the recommended dose of 1/2 cc shot for 3 days. You will be wasting your time. Give them 1cc just under the skin of the breast. Make sure no blood is coming into the needle.
 
Thirdly: Get some VetRx. Put a good drop in each nostril. Then rub it in,. So they breathe it in. Then put 3 drops down there throat. The water bowl put 5 drops in it. Do this part every day.
 
In 2-3 days she will be back scratching and moving around. After about the third or fourth day she will be able to go back with the rest. This will work!!! 

She's been on duramycin-10 for a week, been wormed just in case, on electrolytes ...

 

[kendradillon]

And she does sleep in the house at night... Ill put her out 24/7 starting tomorrow

 

[Shark Akhrrana]

I would say it is likely this hen's pattern is a mix of silver columbian (light) and silver penciled (dark).  Her comb kind of makes me wonder if all her ancestors were all Brahmas though.

Yeah I agree. I'll be getting some chicks from a hatchery soon. Been wondering; how likely is it they will have other stuff in them?

 

[Tim63]

Yeah I agree. I'll be getting some chicks from a hatchery soon. Been wondering; how likely is it they will have other stuff in them?

I don't think they have other "stuff" in them. They are bred for quantity, NOT quality. No selective breeding(other than possibly egg production). You will get under-sized birds, sparrow-headed, lacking true BRAHMA type, most will be either over or under colored. Not really a good foundation for a serious breeding program. Great for back-yard birds. It just depends on what your specific goals/needs are.


Tim

 

[Shark Akhrrana]

I don't think they have other "stuff" in them. They are bred for quantity, NOT quality. No selective breeding(other than possibly egg production). You will get under-sized birds, sparrow-headed, lacking true BRAHMA type, most will be either over or under colored. Not really a good foundation for a serious breeding program. Great for back-yard birds. It just depends on what your specific goals/needs are.


Tim

Well they will mostly be just backyard egg layers. It just so happens this is my favorite breed. But I was considering getting at least one quality pair separately.

 

[Helen in the Desert]

I can relate, only it was the silver single laced pattern that caught my eye.

I believe I might consider an alternative path to get to a silver double lace Brahma. The way I read it, silver penciled (dark Brahma) has everything you need but MI (melonotic). What I would do is cross to a silver laced Brahma, which has everything you need, (including MI), but does have Co (columbian), which you don't need. You could avoid having to deal with gold, single comb, clean legs, and a completely different body type by going this route. According to Henk's calculator, should be do-able in two generations. The original silver laced Cochin/white Cornish cross that started me on the path to silver laced Brahmas was a silver double laced pullet.

As far as what I'm currently working on. Still have the (single) silver laced , blue laced red, (the typiest pullet I hatched last year is a double laced blue laced red), and started putzing around with a blue/splash red columbian color.

Now to Tim's comment, my knowledge of genetics is pretty much limited to anything I needed to learn for these projects, there are many, far better educated folks that frequent this forum.

I think the most important thing with these projects, or breeding in general, is knowing and recognizing what proper Brahma type is. Having a pea comb and feathered legs do not make a Brahma.

I agree with the type part. I bred and judged small animals for 12 years so I get that totally, which is why I don't want to follow in the footsteps of "fad" and "make money fast" breeders. I am actively studying the type, so I can know it really well. They haven't gotten to Brahma yet on the CSU thread yet but I am looking forward to that.

And I, like you, read up on what I need to know for what I am doing as far as genetics goes. I had wanted to stay away from the Co but I suppose when you are having to get rid of reds and golds and back to type and all of that, it makes sense. Birds are a lot more complicated than the other stuff I have worked with before.

And I would want my birds to do well in the show ring as well, eventually.

 

[big medicine]

I agree with the type part. I bred and judged small animals for 12 years so I get that totally, which is why I don't want to follow in the footsteps of "fad" and "make money fast" breeders. I am actively studying the type, so I can know it really well. They haven't gotten to Brahma yet on the CSU thread yet but I am looking forward to that.

And I, like you, read up on what I need to know for what I am doing as far as genetics goes. I had wanted to stay away from the Co but I suppose when you are having to get rid of reds and golds and back to type and all of that, it makes sense. Birds are a lot more complicated than the other stuff I have worked with before.

And I would want my birds to do well in the show ring as well, eventually.

I would think the columbian thing would be by far the lesser issue to fix. Each chick from a dark, silver lace cross would be split Co/co, so you are already part way there. Breed the best typed F1 chicks together, and then look for type and the best lacing in each generation after that.