Brahma Thread
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With projects like this there are always many birds that don't measure up, for various reasons. Be it color, lacing, or type over the course of this project. Type is often the deciding factor that distinguishes the people who are breeders and who are reproducers. So to answer your question, yes I have sold many as back yard layers and eaters over the years. And I have had seen some of these culls' eggs show show up at auction, advertising them from my stock, which technically they were, but never sold as breeders.
With projects like this there are always many birds that don't measure up, for various reasons. Be it color, lacing, or type over the course of this project. Type is often the deciding factor that distinguishes the people who are breeders and who are reproducers. So to answer your question, yes I have sold many as back yard layers and eaters over the years. And I have had seen some of these culls' eggs show show up at auction, advertising them from my stock, which technically they were, but never sold as breeders.
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Not using vulture hocked birds for breeders is a very important first step. But it is not as simple as that, being a recessive trait, and having had VH show up in a chick means at least one hen, and the male in the breeding pen each carried a copy. So it's likely half of the non VH chicks out of this same male will carry a copy, (as well as any other chicks from any hen(s) that carried it), and will pass a copy to half their young. Which will remain hidden until it meets up with a copy coming from the other parent.
The group of SLB chicks that had the one VH chick were from hatched eggs that I purchased from someone here on BYC. I am only keeping 3 pullets of that group to add to my SLB roosters and hens from Dan's stock. I am hoping that by combining these and having roosters from different stock will reduce the risk of vulture hocks. If I find any evidence of VH in this Spring's hatchings, then I have a big problem. Correct approach?
Not using vulture hocked birds for breeders is a very important first step. But it is not as simple as that, being a recessive trait, and having had VH show up in a chick means at least one hen, and the male in the breeding pen each carried a copy. So it's likely half of the non VH chicks out of this same male will carry a copy, (as well as any other chicks from any hen(s) that carried it), and will pass a copy to half their young. Which will remain hidden until it meets up with a copy coming from the other parent.
The group of SLB chicks that had the one VH chick were from hatched eggs that I purchased from someone here on BYC. I am only keeping 3 pullets of that group to add to my SLB roosters and hens from Dan's stock. I am hoping that by combining these and having roosters from different stock will reduce the risk of vulture hocks. If I find any evidence of VH in this Spring's hatchings, then I have a big problem. Correct approach?
Quote:
With projects like this there are always many birds that don't measure up, for various reasons. Be it color, lacing, or type over the course of this project. Type is often the deciding factor that distinguishes the people who are breeders and who are reproducers. So to answer your question, yes I have sold many as back yard layers and eaters over the years. And I have had seen some of these culls' eggs show up at auction, advertising them from my stock, which technically they were, but never sold as breeders.
I can understand your agro at people using your name to sell their eggs from your birds you never intended as breeders, but I guess as someone who can't have a rooster your name on an egg even from a reject hen will be better than a chick from the feed store.
to the people using your culls to sell eggs.
With projects like this there are always many birds that don't measure up, for various reasons. Be it color, lacing, or type over the course of this project. Type is often the deciding factor that distinguishes the people who are breeders and who are reproducers. So to answer your question, yes I have sold many as back yard layers and eaters over the years. And I have had seen some of these culls' eggs show up at auction, advertising them from my stock, which technically they were, but never sold as breeders.
I can understand your agro at people using your name to sell their eggs from your birds you never intended as breeders, but I guess as someone who can't have a rooster your name on an egg even from a reject hen will be better than a chick from the feed store.
Quote:
Not using vulture hocked birds for breeders is a very important first step. But it is not as simple as that, being a recessive trait, and having had VH show up in a chick means at least one hen, and the male in the breeding pen each carried a copy. So it's likely half of the non VH chicks out of this same male will carry a copy, (as well as any other chicks from any hen(s) that carried it), and will pass a copy to half their young. Which will remain hidden until it meets up with a copy coming from the other parent.
The group of SLB chicks that had the one VH chick were from hatched eggs that I purchased from someone here on BYC. I am only keeping 3 pullets of that group to add to my SLB roosters and hens from Dan's stock. I am hoping that by combining these and having roosters from different stock will reduce the risk of vulture hocks. If I find any evidence of VH in this Spring's hatchings, then I have a big problem. Correct approach?
I can guess your eggs came from Danny..which his eggs came directly from Big meds....Powell got his start with the aid of slb roo from big meds ...while the bloodlines are different in some aspect....they all came from the same source of origin...Big meds....meaning they are all tied in....You sound like you are on the right track with culling hard....
Not using vulture hocked birds for breeders is a very important first step. But it is not as simple as that, being a recessive trait, and having had VH show up in a chick means at least one hen, and the male in the breeding pen each carried a copy. So it's likely half of the non VH chicks out of this same male will carry a copy, (as well as any other chicks from any hen(s) that carried it), and will pass a copy to half their young. Which will remain hidden until it meets up with a copy coming from the other parent.
The group of SLB chicks that had the one VH chick were from hatched eggs that I purchased from someone here on BYC. I am only keeping 3 pullets of that group to add to my SLB roosters and hens from Dan's stock. I am hoping that by combining these and having roosters from different stock will reduce the risk of vulture hocks. If I find any evidence of VH in this Spring's hatchings, then I have a big problem. Correct approach?
I can guess your eggs came from Danny..which his eggs came directly from Big meds....Powell got his start with the aid of slb roo from big meds ...while the bloodlines are different in some aspect....they all came from the same source of origin...Big meds....meaning they are all tied in....You sound like you are on the right track with culling hard....
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It is my understanding that the Buff Laced and Gold Laced orignated wtih Dan Powell, after their creation he got Silver Laced from bigmedicine.
Quote:
Not using vulture hocked birds for breeders is a very important first step. But it is not as simple as that, being a recessive trait, and having had VH show up in a chick means at least one hen, and the male in the breeding pen each carried a copy. So it's likely half of the non VH chicks out of this same male will carry a copy, (as well as any other chicks from any hen(s) that carried it), and will pass a copy to half their young. Which will remain hidden until it meets up with a copy coming from the other parent.
The group of SLB chicks that had the one VH chick were from hatched eggs that I purchased from someone here on BYC. I am only keeping 3 pullets of that group to add to my SLB roosters and hens from Dan's stock. I am hoping that by combining these and having roosters from different stock will reduce the risk of vulture hocks. If I find any evidence of VH in this Spring's hatchings, then I have a big problem. Correct approach?
To the best of my knowledge, all silver laced Brahmas in the U.S., including Dan's, originated from my stock, as well as his blue laced golds/reds. He has blended them with his own buff laced project birds since then.
Have you hatched any chicks out of the birds from Dan ? If so, any sign of VH?
If you have the room and multiple males, I believe I would keep the females seperate. Because you know the newcomers at least are suspects for potentally carrying a hidden single copy.
That's the difficult thing about breeding out a recessive like VH, single carriers look perfectly normal. Another option would be to test mate to a full blown VH. Any bird who produces any VH chicks out of this mating(should be 50% so won't require alot of chicks to tell) is carrying a single hidden copy and should not be used as a breeder.
If I had to do it over again, and had any inclination of such issues popping back up, I would have surely kept my birds here, till I had it worked out. Have not had any such problems with my blue laced red project birds, and have not mixed these lines for that very reason.
Not using vulture hocked birds for breeders is a very important first step. But it is not as simple as that, being a recessive trait, and having had VH show up in a chick means at least one hen, and the male in the breeding pen each carried a copy. So it's likely half of the non VH chicks out of this same male will carry a copy, (as well as any other chicks from any hen(s) that carried it), and will pass a copy to half their young. Which will remain hidden until it meets up with a copy coming from the other parent.
The group of SLB chicks that had the one VH chick were from hatched eggs that I purchased from someone here on BYC. I am only keeping 3 pullets of that group to add to my SLB roosters and hens from Dan's stock. I am hoping that by combining these and having roosters from different stock will reduce the risk of vulture hocks. If I find any evidence of VH in this Spring's hatchings, then I have a big problem. Correct approach?
To the best of my knowledge, all silver laced Brahmas in the U.S., including Dan's, originated from my stock, as well as his blue laced golds/reds. He has blended them with his own buff laced project birds since then.
Have you hatched any chicks out of the birds from Dan ? If so, any sign of VH?
If you have the room and multiple males, I believe I would keep the females seperate. Because you know the newcomers at least are suspects for potentally carrying a hidden single copy.
That's the difficult thing about breeding out a recessive like VH, single carriers look perfectly normal. Another option would be to test mate to a full blown VH. Any bird who produces any VH chicks out of this mating(should be 50% so won't require alot of chicks to tell) is carrying a single hidden copy and should not be used as a breeder.
If I had to do it over again, and had any inclination of such issues popping back up, I would have surely kept my birds here, till I had it worked out. Have not had any such problems with my blue laced red project birds, and have not mixed these lines for that very reason.
Wow. On the bright side, all of the others look like undersized Wyandottes with feathers glued on compared to those who have put in their blood, sweat and (not saying you cry) tears into a project. Wonder why the other people that you've helped haven't tried to help with bettering the type and other characteristics that make the Brahma breed one of a kind?
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