Breeding A Barred Rock To A Prairie Bluebell Egger!

[PCBfarms]

Hello Everyone,
I am looking for some answers and some overall knowledge of breeding chickens! The two breeds I would like to mix are as the title states (bluebell egger & barred rock) ! I'm shooting for a starlight green egger result of the mix due to the fact that Hoover Hatchery has the description of the SGE being a PBE and a brown egg layer! In my head the barred rock would be a no brainer go to for the mix, but I also am not 100% positive I understand how this will turn out!
Any help is welcome!
Thanks,
Parker Brinton
PCB Farms

 

[Lady of McCamley]

The basics of crossing a brown layer and a blue layer produce shades of green layers upon a few conditions being met.

First, understand how green is made. Blue shells are produced by bile being thrown back into the shell gland calcium so the actual shell is blue. (Crack open a blue egg and you will find blue inside as well). Brown eggs are produced by hemoglobin wash being applied to the shell (white from the calcite shell gland) so that it literally is "paint" applied to the shell. Open a brown shell and you will see white shell inside. Green is achieved by applying brown wash to a blue shell, so you need the genetics for both brown layer wash (about 13 control how much) and genetics for blue shell (2 genes involved with only 1 needed to produce blue color).

How deep a color of green (spring to olive) depends on how much brown wash is applied. For true olive eggers you need a dark brown layer line such as Welsummer, Marans, or Penedesenca. A middle brown layer line such as Barred Rock produces middle greens, typically, when bred over a blue line.

I can't tell from Hoover Hatchery if the Prairie Bluebell is truly a breed (meaning traits consistently passed along to offspring) or a hybrid (a mix of breeds creating a mix of trait results). They use the word "breed," but I suspicion in their description that it may be a hybrid since the lineage states Araucana and White Leghorn and the chick photos vary a lot. That could mean that your blue layer only has 1 blue shell gene to pass along. Why? Araucana are pure breeds for blue while White Leghorn have no blue genes.

To have this make more sense you need to understand some genetics. Every gene "slot" that controls a characteristic (trait) has 2 spots filled by 2 genes. One from the father. One from the mother. To consistently pass along a trait, a parent should have 2 genes thereby assuring that ONE of them will always be passed along to the offspring (generally matching with the other gene pair from the other parent keeping the line "pure").

With hybrids, you may only have 1 of the gene pairs for a certain trait. If the trait is dominant, 1 gene is enough to express that trait. If the trait is not dominant, but recessive, it takes 2 genes to express that trait.

With blue shells, it only takes 1 of the oocyan genes to throw bile back into the egg shell duct to create the characteristic blue shell. However, if you have a hybrid, it will pass that 1 gene 50% of the time meaning 50% of the offspring receive the blue shell gene while 50% of the offspring do not. That changes results.

If the Prairie Bluebells have been carefully controlled by Hoover to have 2 blue genes, then paired with a Barred Rock rooster (I presume), you will get 100% greenish layers that have 1 blue gene that is dominant for blue color. That 1st generation offspring bred back to the Barred Rock rooster will produce 2nd generation 50% blue shell (green layers) and 50% brown layers.

If the Prairie Bluebells are simply hybrids with mixed chances of whether the hen has 1 blue shell gene, then your results will vary. If you breed a 1 blue shell gene to the Barred Rock, 50% will become green layers, 50% will be brown layers (missing any blue shell gene).

If the Prairie Bluebell is the rooster, and the Barred Rock the hen, the same chances remain the same for the passing of blue genes for green shells, however you will have sex linked chicks...barred males (white head dot) and non-barred females (no head dot). If the Barred Rock is the rooster (and he is pure), all chicks will be single barred (1 barring gene).

Hope that helps and makes sense.

LofMc

 

[FunClucks]

I have Prairie Bluebells, and recently bred them to a Production Red rooster (medium brown egg layer). Hatched out 20 eggs, 12 roosters. The 8 hens will be laying within the month.

Prairie bluebells are a mix that includes white leghorn, so they have the zinc white gene. I have 6 PBEs. All but one lay light blue eggs, one has a greenish tint that varies occasionally in green-ness. All have pea comb. For PBEs, the pea comb is linked to the blue egg gene (this isn't always the case). They are hybrids, so I expect them to have one copy of the blue egg gene and the zinc white prevents brown from expressing.

For the progeny, the rooster was straight comb, and that's recessive, so right away, I expect the straight comb offspring to not have the blue egg gene. There were a few straight comb roos, but all hens had pea comb.

And now to the million dollar question - will the zinc white gene be inherited by all the hens and prevent the brown egg genes from expressing themselves? Will we get a partial expression of brown genes, and therefore a light or occasional brown wash (green eggs)? Will the progeny lay green or blue? Pretty sure we won't be getting brown since they all have the blue egg gene as indicated by their pea combs.

If you want to make olive eggers or green eggers, starting with a blue egger that doesn't carry the zinc white gene is a better choice. Aracauna (pure), or cream crested legbar are two good choices. Crossed with a black copper maran is the best chance for olive eggers.

I ordered some Whiting True Blues because I'm not entirely happy with the Prairie Bluebells egg size, consistency, quality, and color, and I've heard that they have the zinc white gene too. CCLs lay green as often as they lay blue, but when using them to breed olive or green eggers, that's not an issue, so I'll probably be using CCL and BCM next time I want to try for some olive eggers. Benefit of that is it's also a sexlink cross, and males will have barring (I'm pretty sure).

 

[PCBfarms]

The basics of crossing a brown layer and a blue layer produce shades of green layers upon a few conditions being met.

First, understand how green is made. Blue shells are produced by bile being thrown back into the shell gland calcium so the actual shell is blue. (Crack open a blue egg and you will find blue inside as well). Brown eggs are produced by hemoglobin wash being applied to the shell (white from the calcite shell gland) so that it literally is "paint" applied to the shell. Open a brown shell and you will see white shell inside. Green is achieved by applying brown wash to a blue shell, so you need the genetics for both brown layer wash (about 13 control how much) and genetics for blue shell (2 genes involved with only 1 needed to produce blue color).

How deep a color of green (spring to olive) depends on how much brown wash is applied. For true olive eggers you need a dark brown layer line such as Welsummer, Marans, or Penedesenca. A middle brown layer line such as Barred Rock produces middle greens, typically, when bred over a blue line.

I can't tell from Hoover Hatchery if the Prairie Bluebell is truly a breed (meaning traits consistently passed along to offspring) or a hybrid (a mix of breeds creating a mix of trait results). They use the word "breed," but I suspicion in their description that it may be a hybrid since the lineage states Araucana and White Leghorn and the chick photos vary a lot. That could mean that your blue layer only has 1 blue shell gene to pass along. Why? Araucana are pure breeds for blue while White Leghorn have no blue genes.

To have this make more sense you need to understand some genetics. Every gene "slot" that controls a characteristic (trait) has 2 spots filled by 2 genes. One from the father. One from the mother. To consistently pass along a trait, a parent should have 2 genes thereby assuring that ONE of them will always be passed along to the offspring (generally matching with the other gene pair from the other parent keeping the line "pure").

With hybrids, you may only have 1 of the gene pairs for a certain trait. If the trait is dominant, 1 gene is enough to express that trait. If the trait is not dominant, but recessive, it takes 2 genes to express that trait.

With blue shells, it only takes 1 of the oocyan genes to throw bile back into the egg shell duct to create the characteristic blue shell. However, if you have a hybrid, it will pass that 1 gene 50% of the time meaning 50% of the offspring receive the blue shell gene while 50% of the offspring do not. That changes results.

If the Prairie Bluebells have been carefully controlled by Hoover to have 2 blue genes, then paired with a Barred Rock rooster (I presume), you will get 100% greenish layers that have 1 blue gene that is dominant for blue color. That 1st generation offspring bred back to the Barred Rock rooster will produce 2nd generation 50% blue shell (green layers) and 50% brown layers.

If the Prairie Bluebells are simply hybrids with mixed chances of whether the hen has 1 blue shell gene, then your results will vary. If you breed a 1 blue shell gene to the Barred Rock, 50% will become green layers, 50% will be brown layers (missing any blue shell gene).

If the Prairie Bluebell is the rooster, and the Barred Rock the hen, the same chances remain the same for the passing of blue genes for green shells, however you will have sex linked chicks...barred males (white head dot) and non-barred females (no head dot). If the Barred Rock is the rooster (and he is pure), all chicks will be single barred (1 barring gene).

Hope that helps and makes sense.

LofMc

Thank you for all the knowledge you shared with me I greatly appreciate it and I will continue on in fun clucks reply!

 

[PCBfarms]

I have Prairie Bluebells, and recently bred them to a Production Red rooster (medium brown egg layer). Hatched out 20 eggs, 12 roosters. The 8 hens will be laying within the month.

Prairie bluebells are a mix that includes white leghorn, so they have the zinc white gene. I have 6 PBEs. All but one lay light blue eggs, one has a greenish tint that varies occasionally in green-ness. All have pea comb. For PBEs, the pea comb is linked to the blue egg gene (this isn't always the case). They are hybrids, so I expect them to have one copy of the blue egg gene and the zinc white prevents brown from expressing.

For the progeny, the rooster was straight comb, and that's recessive, so right away, I expect the straight comb offspring to not have the blue egg gene. There were a few straight comb roos, but all hens had pea comb.

And now to the million dollar question - will the zinc white gene be inherited by all the hens and prevent the brown egg genes from expressing themselves? Will we get a partial expression of brown genes, and therefore a light or occasional brown wash (green eggs)? Will the progeny lay green or blue? Pretty sure we won't be getting brown since they all have the blue egg gene as indicated by their pea combs.

If you want to make olive eggers or green eggers, starting with a blue egger that doesn't carry the zinc white gene is a better choice. Aracauna (pure), or cream crested legbar are two good choices. Crossed with a black copper maran is the best chance for olive eggers.

I ordered some Whiting True Blues because I'm not entirely happy with the Prairie Bluebells egg size, consistency, quality, and color, and I've heard that they have the zinc white gene too. CCLs lay green as often as they lay blue, but when using them to breed olive or green eggers, that's not an issue, so I'll probably be using CCL and BCM next time I want to try for some olive eggers. Benefit of that is it's also a sexlink cross, and males will have barring (I'm pretty sure).

I have decided to scrap my original idea and have already sourced some BCMs as well as some pure bred Ameraucanas to move foward with the Perfect Green Egger! I plan on naming this hybrid Freehome Emerald Eggers, but maybe just the Freehome Green Eggers depending on how green the outcome is! I am excited moving foward and would love to get updates on the crosses you have created! Once Again Thank You To Both Of You!
Best Regards,
Parker Brinton
PCB Farms

 

[Lady of McCamley]

Good choices. I've worked with BCM and they produce nice olive eggers (I had Cream Legbar as the blue line...and yes that produces sex link only if the mother is the CL and the father the BCM).

I was not aware that Prarie Bluebells have resistant white (or brown inhibitor). Brown is controlled by about 13 genes, and I will warn you that keeping brown dark is hard. Typically it is best to have the rooster your dark brown line (the BCM) and the hens your blue line (Ameraucana). That typically keeps refreshing the dark brown with the line breed backs over your first generation olives to keep nice olive.

Your breeding results will vary. Out of every batch, some will lay nicely dark olive while others more mid tone. Breed 2nd generation to 2nd generation and I find lightening of the brown more (as more of those 13 genes drop off).

It's a fun project. I have predominately worked with Barnevelder and Cream Legbar, with some Marans.

LofMc

 

[FunClucks]

@PCBfarms Have fun with your project!

@Lady of McCamley FYI I know the PBEs carry the zinc white gene because they have that chalky white coating that white leghorn eggs have. Others have probably bred PBEs and shown this another way, but when I was looking at the PBE eggs, the chalky white coating was an indicator to me that I should ask more knowledgeable folks if the zinc white gene was present.

Haven't gotten eggs from the WTB yet myself, so it will be interesting to verify that they have the chalky white coating on their eggs, or not.

 

[Chipmunk Chicks]

@PCBfarms Have fun with your project!

@Lady of McCamley FYI I know the PBEs carry the zinc white gene because they have that chalky white coating that white leghorn eggs have. Others have probably bred PBEs and shown this another way, but when I was looking at the PBE eggs, the chalky white coating was an indicator to me that I should ask more knowledgeable folks if the zinc white gene was present.

Haven't gotten eggs from the WTB yet myself, so it will be interesting to verify that they have the chalky white coating on their eggs, or not.

This is interesting to me. I have an Australorp that lays a chalky white egg. I always assumed it was something to do with excess calcium or heavy bloom or something...

 

[TexasBlues]

I have decided to scrap my original idea and have already sourced some BCMs as well as some pure bred Ameraucanas to move foward with the Perfect Green Egger! I plan on naming this hybrid Freehome Emerald Eggers, but maybe just the Freehome Green Eggers depending on how green the outcome is! I am excited moving foward and would love to get updates on the crosses you have created! Once Again Thank You To Both Of You!
Best Regards,
Parker Brinton
PCB Farms

Did you make a cross with BCM and Ameraucanas?