Breeding for Phenotype

[sovtsotf]

Hi there.

I have a young teen at home, that talked us into chicks this spring...and it has started a lot of curiosity. I may have other topics, however one thing I am looking to help with is breeding for phenotype. It seems a lot of forums are on breeding for color, sex link traits, and egg color...but looking for recessive things can be a landmine. The crux of the issue, and I am trying to be as simple as possible:

If we have a roo, and want to breed him for other roos that have a higher chance of looking like him...what might be the best educated place to start to find a hen for him to increase a 'wider net'?

I see white is a 'wash out' for dominance over most. I see the two color genes in play...and I know this can get nuanced easily. HOWEVER, without it being a silky, what might be a breed or hen color to pair with him? What would be a solid starting place for that only goal- (to duplicate as many of his appearance traits as possible) and why?

We would like to avoid unnecessary breeding and roulette guess work as amateurs.

Thank you.

 

[The Moonshiner]

I'm confused. You say you want to breed for phenotype. Then mention seeing lots on breeding for color. And mention looking to breed for more that look like him.
So is that not breeding for color/patterns?
There are so many genes involved in chickens and so many in just colors/patterns that I don't know any source to learn even the majority of them.
I've been experimenting and learning their genetics for decades. Hard-core for years and the more I know the more I know I still know so little.
This forum is a great resource but you have to start somewhere. It would be best to start with that rooster. Post a pic and others will hopefully help you understand his genetics and then go from there to what genetics you want in a hen.

 

[sovtsotf]

Yes, we are looking to avoid the random experiment process and more educated from what is known about breeds and colors here. Did you have a starting place for us to look into? I welcome the suggestion if so!

 

[Egg Snatcher]

If you don’t want to mess with crossings I would just get chicks the same breed so they would all look the same if that is what you are wanting.

 

[The Moonshiner]

Yes, we are looking to avoid the random experiment process and more educated from what is known about breeds and colors here. Did you have a starting place for us to look into? I welcome the suggestion if so!

Sorry when I said experimenting I didn't mean randomly crossing stuff or crossing mixed breeds. I'm no good at random then trying to understand after the fact.
I'm into crossing colors/patterns to create different patterns. I need to know the genetics of a bird to plan a cross and know the expected outcome and then the next step.
I do a lot of playing the odds so sometimes it like a 1 in 4 or 1 in 8 etc chance of getting what I need and then that makes lots of unneeded birds so I get what you meant by wanting to get to a bird in the shortest distance without producing like a hundred hoping for a couple keepers.
I don't have or know sources. I really can only learn by doing but I start with knowing what the birds in front of me carry.
I don't know your bird so hard to come to a conclusion on pairing. Is your rooster a pure breed? Or just a pattern that's unknown that you like?
@Amer might be able to help you with a starting point for learning. She's very knowledgeable with genes

 

[sovtsotf]

Okay gotcha. It's just some mix from a local farm's mixed flock. So I'm just looking for information on the more probable 'recessive' gene type of bird...what would offer most chances to see more of the traits, rather than pairing with a type of bird that has known dominant genes.

 

[SourRoses]

Since you're so new to chickens, I want to share a totally un-asked for tidbit...
please try to keep your mind open for at least a little while!
I was surprised as we slowly explored the variety of chicken breeds over the years to discover what we actually liked and what we didn't.
Don't let yourself get stuck on the hard work of breeding for something before you're certain you've found your very favorite traits in the whole wide world of chickens.
Some things are not as pretty in a photo as real life, and some things are less exciting in person.
For just one example... black. It looks boring on screen, never thought I would love it... but in person a healthy black with good genes just glows with colorful sheen. It shifts as they move so pictures don't show it well.

An attempt:

There are other aspects to discover... like when we realized we don't like small eggs. The Silkies we kept were very cute, but their eggs were awkward to use and to store, and made cooking less fun.
I finally found blue egg breeds and while it may seem silly, it turned egg collection into less of a chore and more like a fun treasure hunt.
That's what works for us, but everyone is different. Who knows what you may find?

 

[EggSighted4Life]

What would be a solid starting place for that only goal- (to duplicate as many of his appearance traits as possible) and why?

Post pics.. to get any accurate response.

Straight comb is recessive to all other types.

Bearding, cresting, feathered legs, and 5 toes are dominant.

White feathers can be dominant or recessive.

White shanks are dominant over yellow.

Black feathers is dominant to red..

Silkied feathers are recessive.. meaning takes 2 copies to show..

Etc, Etc..

You're just being to vague to get much help.. Let us see what you're trying to repeat/copy.. so we can give a little more direction. Noting here that I'm very novice to genetics and this is some basic comments according to my current understanding.

Here's a beginner link, hope this is helpful some!

https://cluckin.net/chicken-genetics-gene-table-and-breeding.html

 

[sovtsotf]

Okay, so I am reading you are suggesting a hen that is straight comb, no beard, no crest, no feathered legs, 4 toes, yellow shanks, and that red is more recessive of the two color genes?

So what would that be- a NH red hen?

 

[Amer]

Not red, gold. Partridge is the most recessive base. New Hampshire Reds have Columbian and Mahogany. While black somewhat covers these genes, they are considered dominant.