BREEDING FOR PRODUCTION...EGGS AND OR MEAT.

[DesertChic]

It wasn't a bad idea to clean out the coop and disinfect things.
The only way to know what killed the rooster is to get a necropsy and lab work.
If you're in Florida, this is your poultry lab.

Florida

Bronson Animal Disease Diagnostic Laboratory
Florida Department of Ag and Consumer Services
2700 N. John Young Parkway
Kissimmee, Florida 34741-1266
Phone: 321-697-1400
IAV-A, CSF, CWD*, ND, FMD, IAV-S*, PRV, SCRAPIE


I've done 2 necropsies myself and had 3 done at the state vet school. I've lost 2 roosters quickly and 1 hen that went down fast. After a couple days of the hen looking bad, I took her to the vet school. She was euthanized and necropsied. She had cancer. One of the roosters was like yours. Dead in the morning. The other was breeding hens in the morning and 5 minutes later he was dead. The 2 roosters both died of a heart attack. No disease in either case (except cancer).
One of the necropsies I did indicated fatty liver syndrome.

It's a shame when people have a bird die for unknown reasons that they don't take advantage of the services of their state labs.
My breed is extremely rare and it's imperative I know what they died of so I know how to protect the rest of the birds.

IMHO, one should never allow a rooster to eat layer feed. If people that have roosters die for unknown reasons, it can also be from kidney damage but they never seem to have a necropsy.

What do you think is better to feed roosters? I've heard a few other people comment to this effect, but then their choice of rooster feed has varied widely, with some people only feeding scratch and others feeding a higher protein feed. I'm always intrigued to hear another's perspective on the matter as roosters get so little attentive care compared to hens.

 

[holm25]

@ChickenCanoe I know . These girls have also laid before but when I moved them they quit again!

 

[holm25]

What do you think is better to feed roosters? I've heard a few other people comment to this effect, but then their choice of rooster feed has varied widely, with some people only feeding scratch and others feeding a higher protein feed. I'm always intrigued to hear another's perspective on the matter as roosters get so little attentive care compared to hens. 

X2? I am confused as to how I am gonna get my roos to eat one thing and hens the other? And my birds eat very little layer anyways except for my breeder birds who are locked up and have no choice.

 

[PD-Riverman]

What do you think is better to feed roosters? I've heard a few other people comment to this effect, but then their choice of rooster feed has varied widely, with some people only feeding scratch and others feeding a higher protein feed. I'm always intrigued to hear another's perspective on the matter as roosters get so little attentive care compared to hens.

I feed starter grower, then grower finisher, then to a home ground 16% feed and allow them to free range----I want mine to reach adult size asap then I can sell them for good decent return.

Lower % feed like corn and scratch alone will take them longer to get to that size.

 

[ChickenCanoe]

What do you think is better to feed roosters? I've heard a few other people comment to this effect, but then their choice of rooster feed has varied widely, with some people only feeding scratch and others feeding a higher protein feed. I'm always intrigued to hear another's perspective on the matter as roosters get so little attentive care compared to hens.

I tend to keep ideal breeding roosters till about 5 or so years of age.
Except during molt, an adult rooster does quite well with about 13-14% protein and 1-2% calcium.
Feeds that are in that range are uncommon and thereby more expensive. However, protein is an expensive ingredient.
The higher protein over what they need for body maintenance must be processed by the liver and kidneys and expelled in the feces.
Calcium over 2.5% for a bird not producing egg shells, (roosters, growing birds, molters) is excessive.
Excess protein can result in articular gout. Excess calcium can result in visceral gout. Other problems can also come from those excesses.
Research shows that sperm motility can be enhanced with about 2% calcium over what is in non-layer feeds. However, research also shows that roosters fed layer feed (><4%calcium) die at 4 times the rate of females and that is due to kidney damage.
Sometimes I'll feed roosters a 15% finisher feed or a 12.5% game bird maintenance feed. Since my roosters are breeders or potential breeders, I still want their vitamin/mineral intake to be enhanced so that's why I stay away from too much scratch and will usually add some Nutri-Drench to the water weekly.
I also add kelp to their fermented feed.

ETA
referencing calcium, keep in mind that all the feeds and their nutrient ratios available to us at feed stores are formulas based on the research that commercial egg or broiler farms utilize. For most non-laying birds, about 1% calcium is sufficient. For birds in full production, about 4% calcium is adequate. However, most small holders and backyard chicken keepers don't raise birds the way commercial operations do.
For egg farms, they have tens of thousands of pullets in each replacement flock. They all hatched the same day and after a few weeks are kept on 8 hours of light in blackout housing. Then, at about 15 weeks, daylength is gradually increased so they all come into lay within about a week of each other. Backyard keepers don't do that. Commercial layers in full production can utilize that 4% calcium. If it isn't sufficient and they get rickets or cage layer fatigue or if it is excessive and they die from kidney failure, they don't really care because they have millions of birds.
The 1% to 4% are general numbers. The fact is, for most people, their birds may lay at a rate of 6-7 eggs a week or 1-2 eggs a week. The former may need more than 4% while the latter needs much less.
When the egg enters the shell gland, calcium is pulled from the medullary bone to build the shell but hens are able to rapidly utilize any calcium in the small intestine. For that reason, crushed oyster shell is very helpful because of its large particle size, it stays in the upper digestive tract longer and is in contact with the calcium absorption sites in the small intestine during the night when the egg is in the shell gland.
Calcium in feed is finely ground and passes through at the same rate as all other nutrients.

@ChickenCanoe I know

. These girls have also laid before but when I moved them they quit again!

I'm sorry, I thought they were pullets. So if they're older and this is another round of laying, this is the perfect time to collect eggs for hatching.

X2? I am confused as to how I am gonna get my roos to eat one thing and hens the other? And my birds eat very little layer anyways except for my breeder birds who are locked up and have no choice.

There are 2 methods of feeding a mixed flock.
The easiest is to provide an all flock or lower protein grower feed. (18% max) and then provide oyster shell in a separate container for those laying eggs.
Another method that some large breeder operations use is to have 2 types of feeders. One for the hens that are difficult for the roosters to get their heads in and another elevated so the hens can't reach the rim.

Another possibility is to keep a bachelor pad and just introduce roosters to a breeding flock occasionally and only for about a week at a time. The hens will be fertile for about 3 weeks after the conjugal visits.
Since most of my birds free range or are places vulnerable to predators, I keep at least one rooster with each flock for predator protection.

 

[ChickenCanoe]

I feed starter grower, then grower finisher, then to a home ground 16% feed and allow them to free range----I want mine to reach adult size asap then I can sell them for good decent return.

Lower % feel like corn and scratch alone will take them longer to get to that size.

I do something similar. I was referring to adult roosters.
I start chicks on 20-22% protein and drop back to 16% when they're about 14 weeks.

 

[DesertChic]

I do something similar. I was referring to adult roosters.
I start chicks on 20-22% protein and drop back to 16% when they're about 14 weeks.

I also do something similar to this with my hatches. I start all of them on 24-26% game bird feed for the first 1-3 weeks, and then reduce to a 20-22% grower feed until their growth rates begin to slow...usually around 9 weeks. Then they go on an 18% starter/grower until they're closer to POL, at which point I put them on a 16% layer feed.

 

[ChickenCanoe]

I also do something similar to this with my hatches. I start all of them on 24-26% game bird feed for the first 1-3 weeks, and then reduce to a 20-22% grower feed until their growth rates begin to slow...usually around 9 weeks. Then they go on an 18% starter/grower until they're closer to POL, at which point I put them on a 16% layer feed.

That's good. At about 12 weeks or so, they can get even lower protein.

I edited my earlier response to you that you may want to peruse.
https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/...oduction-eggs-and-or-meat/12870#post_18205572

 

[ChickenCanoe]

Regarding protein, I wanted to add that % of crude protein can be misleading, especially if people are mixing ingredients. The % on a bag of feed or reported as the content of an ingredient is crude protein. It doesn't differentiate between the makeup of essential amino acids.
Since most feeds are vegetarian (grains and legumes), feed manufacturers usually need to add synthetic lysine, methionine and sometimes other amino acids to make up what is missing in the vegetable based ingredients to meet the needs of omnivorous chickens.
There are ways of looking at amino acids as a barrel with each stave being one of the essential amino acids. If one is short, the others are excessive and the ingredients will spill out so even though the crude protein content may be high, there can still be deficiencies.
The excesses of some amino acids will be excreted as nitrogenous waste and result in high ammonia in the litter.
What feed companies do to correct this is to keep the crude protein as low as possible and supplement the deficient amino acids so the overall cost of protein and nitrogenous excrement is kept as low as possible.
Sometimes, in feeding, I accomplish this by using a 16% organic grower feed for most birds and mix in 60% fishmeal depending on the needs of the birds. The animal based fishmeal will have much higher ratios of amino acids that are deficient in the vegetable based feeds. A 10:1 mix of 16% grower to fishmeal will provide 20% protein for chicks and molting birds.

Limiting amino acid theory.
https://puyallup.wsu.edu/lnm/wp-con.../Protein-and-amino-acid-for-poultry-final.pdf

 

[PD-Riverman]

I do something similar. I was referring to adult roosters.
I start chicks on 20-22% protein and drop back to 16% when they're about 14 weeks.

See I do not buy adult roosters so I was going from hatch to sell!!