BREEDING FOR PRODUCTION...EGGS AND OR MEAT.

[DesertChic]

Regarding protein, I wanted to add that % of crude protein can be misleading, especially if people are mixing ingredients. The % on a bag of feed or reported as the content of an ingredient is crude protein. It doesn't differentiate between the makeup of essential amino acids.
Since most feeds are vegetarian (grains and legumes), feed manufacturers usually need to add synthetic lysine, methionine and sometimes other amino acids to make up what is missing in the vegetable based ingredients to meet the needs of omnivorous chickens.
There are ways of looking at amino acids as a barrel with each stave being one of the essential amino acids. If one is short, the others are excessive and the ingredients will spill out so even though the crude protein content may be high, there can still be deficiencies.
The excesses of some amino acids will be excreted as nitrogenous waste and result in high ammonia in the litter.
What feed companies do to correct this is to keep the crude protein as low as possible and supplement the deficient amino acids so the overall cost of protein and nitrogenous excrement is kept as low as possible.
Sometimes, in feeding, I accomplish this by using a 16% organic grower feed for most birds and mix in 60% fishmeal depending on the needs of the birds. The animal based fishmeal will have much higher ratios of amino acids that are deficient in the vegetable based feeds. A 10:1 mix of 16% grower to fishmeal will provide 20% protein for chicks and molting birds.

Limiting amino acid theory.
https://puyallup.wsu.edu/lnm/wp-con.../Protein-and-amino-acid-for-poultry-final.pdf

I'm really lucky in that the feed I buy uses fish meal as the primary protein source, with spring peas (not soy) providing additional protein. And believe me, if I allow the feed to ferment too long, I can DEFINITELY smell the fish meal.

 

[dan26552]

My mom got Red Rangers, I might try to convince her to keep a couple hens and a rooster to cross to the Wyandotte's, Speckled Sussex and black Australorps she also ordered.

 

[Kassaundra]

Here are some pics of the saved foundlings, all are spunky and livin' large, lol

(don't mind my warped sense of humor)

 

[ChickenCanoe]

See I do not buy adult roosters so I was going from hatch to sell!!

I have a closed flock so I don't buy adult roosters either. I rarely sell them, I eat extra males and keep from 5-10 adult males. I hatch a lot and keep only the best for breeding.

 

[Gorman Farm]

I'm really lucky in that the feed I buy uses fish meal as the primary protein source, with spring peas (not soy) providing additional protein. And believe me, if I allow the feed to ferment too long, I can DEFINITELY smell the fish meal.

What is the name of that feed? If I could get it I wouldn't mind trying it.

I found an NON-GMO Manna Pro layer feed which I liked, but the store I buy it at did not have a NON-GMO all flock.
I realize that the scratch grains I use have GMO haven't found a local alternative for that.
When I let mom raise the clutch and their were young chicks in the coop, I bought Purina Flock Raiser per advise I got here on the forum to use "all flock feed". I do throw oyster shell out in the run several times a week there is always some there if they want it, even when I am feeding layer ration. Within 10 days of switching I had an egg bound hen, which I lost. When I got the Purina Flock Raiser I had about 5lbs or so of layer feed left in the feed bin, so I mixed the 50# of the Purina in and added about 1/4 bag of 25#lb scratch grains and stirred it all up. That is what I was feeding the mixed flock, along with grass clippings, or kale, and some rolled oats for a treat. Then I lost my 11 month old rooster. He was incubated, fed starter, then grower and not exposed to layer ration until he was almost 4 months old. My vet had told me that if he was at least 16 weeks old the extra calcium in the layer wasn't a problem, and I had also read that somewhere else. So now I am hearing that is not true?
In the past I have incubated and not put chicks in the coop until they were at least 3-4 months old. I usually feed starter for 4-6 weeks, then grower until they are old enough to go in the coop. Every other time I fill the waterers I add a little apple cider vinegar. When I have babies, I will sometimes add a little hard boiled egg to their ration in the very beginning, but after they are a couple weeks old I stop doing that.
Until the events of late I have had very good success with my chickens, so I thought I was doing things right, all my hens were laying on average 4 to 5 eggs per week, and feather condition was good, nice bright combs, and active chickens. Now I am re-thinking everything.
I also should say I have a very well ventilated coop, use the deep bedding method and keep it pretty clean. The birds can go in or out to a secure run all day and get closed in only at night.
I have thrown away all the chicken feed that was in the bin, carefully inspecting it for mold, none. I have been feeding the chickens out of the turkey bin until we get to the farm store tomorrow. I am not even sure if the food is the cause but I wasn't taking any chances.

 

[Gorman Farm]

Here are some pics of the saved foundlings, all are spunky and livin' large, lol

(don't mind my warped sense of humor)

OMG so cute

 

[DesertChic]

What is the name of that feed? If I could get it I wouldn't mind trying it.

I found an NON-GMO Manna Pro layer feed which I liked, but the store I buy it at did not have a NON-GMO all flock.
I realize that the scratch grains I use have GMO haven't found a local alternative for that.
When I let mom raise the clutch and their were young chicks in the coop, I bought Purina Flock Raiser per advise I got here on the forum to use "all flock feed". I do throw oyster shell out in the run several times a week there is always some there if they want it, even when I am feeding layer ration. Within 10 days of switching I had an egg bound hen, which I lost. When I got the Purina Flock Raiser I had about 5lbs or so of layer feed left in the feed bin, so I mixed the 50# of the Purina in and added about 1/4 bag of 25#lb scratch grains and stirred it all up. That is what I was feeding the mixed flock, along with grass clippings, or kale, and some rolled oats for a treat. Then I lost my 11 month old rooster. He was incubated, fed starter, then grower and not exposed to layer ration until he was almost 4 months old. My vet had told me that if he was at least 16 weeks old the extra calcium in the layer wasn't a problem, and I had also read that somewhere else. So now I am hearing that is not true?
In the past I have incubated and not put chicks in the coop until they were at least 3-4 months old. I usually feed starter for 4-6 weeks, then grower until they are old enough to go in the coop. Every other time I fill the waterers I add a little apple cider vinegar. When I have babies, I will sometimes add a little hard boiled egg to their ration in the very beginning, but after they are a couple weeks old I stop doing that.
Until the events of late I have had very good success with my chickens, so I thought I was doing things right, all my hens were laying on average 4 to 5 eggs per week, and feather condition was good, nice bright combs, and active chickens. Now I am re-thinking everything.
I also should say I have a very well ventilated coop, use the deep bedding method and keep it pretty clean. The birds can go in or out to a secure run all day and get closed in only at night.
I have thrown away all the chicken feed that was in the bin, carefully inspecting it for mold, none. I have been feeding the chickens out of the turkey bin until we get to the farm store tomorrow. I am not even sure if the food is the cause but I wasn't taking any chances.

If what you've been doing has been working for you then don't re-think everything. There are so many right ways for keeping chickens, and what one person does in their climate and for their breed(s) may not work well for another person. I just like to hear input from other chicken enthusiasts in case I begin noticing problems and want to fix them. Sometimes the "fix" is as easy as a tweak to their diet or moving birds from one house to another. I know this loss has shaken you up a bit, but it really could've just been that one particular bird. All of your others could still be in perfect health.

The food supplier I use is pretty local, and I don't know if they ship to other states or not. The feed in non-GMO, organic, no corn, no soy, and no canola...and they use fish meal for protein. Here's the link:

http://www.tucsonorganicfeed.com/

 

[Gorman Farm]

If what you've been doing has been working for you then don't re-think everything. There are so many right ways for keeping chickens, and what one person does in their climate and for their breed(s) may not work well for another person. I just like to hear input from other chicken enthusiasts in case I begin noticing problems and want to fix them. Sometimes the "fix" is as easy as a tweak to their diet or moving birds from one house to another. I know this loss has shaken you up a bit, but it really could've just been that one particular bird. All of your others could still be in perfect health.

The food supplier I use is pretty local, and I don't know if they ship to other states or not. The feed in non-GMO, organic, no corn, no soy, and no canola...and they use fish meal for protein. Here's the link:

http://www.tucsonorganicfeed.com/

Thanks for the link, you are right they are local and only serve the two locations via delivery. It sounds like an awesome food though.
I think you are right I am over reacting to what has happened.
I am very excited about the orpington eggs I had shipped in from Bobbi and I am going to go back to doing what has worked for me in raising these.
Hopefully there will be a nice Roo in one of those eggs I am putting in the incubator tomorrow. There are no Buff's, but some Crele, Red, and Cuckoo English Orpingtons in there. Fingers and feathers crossed.
Thanks for being supportive, it means a lot.

 

[Fire Ant Farm]

Quote:
I have a place (Hugelland) that will custom mix non-GMO feed for me if I order enough (and I have enough chickens that I could very well do this now). And the protein is animal based. But they are all doing so well on Feather Fixer (the adults, I mean), that I hate to fix something that isn't broken...

 

[Gorman Farm]

I have a place (Hugelland) that will custom mix non-GMO feed for me if I order enough (and I have enough chickens that I could very well do this now). And the protein is animal based. But they are all doing so well on Feather Fixer (the adults, I mean), that I hate to fix something that isn't broken...

Thanks for sharing that they have Feather Fixer at my feed store. Worth checking out.