BREEDING FOR PRODUCTION...EGGS AND OR MEAT.

Thanks. I appreciate the prompt and helpful replies to someone on the bottom rung of the ladder.
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and to this thread in particular!!!! I'd like to point out that there are NO totem poles or low rungs on ladders on this thread. All are welcomed and in fact, this thread was begun for folks like you, those who might feel a bit reticent to post for fear of being ridiculed. That is simply not tolerated here..
 
I've been reading this thread for a few months. I love pretty chickens and pretty eggs but I also want a good homestead type breed to work with. There is someone on the "eggs for sale" thread that is selling Black Java eggs. I think they sound like what I want to try. Eggs, meat, foragers and somewhat broody. Thought others might be interested.
I've really enjoyed reading this thread.
 
I'm one of those that is all in favor of hatchery stock

From my personal experience I've NEVER seen chicks that were healthier or had more vigor than hatchery stock. Other than gamefowl breeders. But your talking about fowl that are on a whole nother plane than your typical run of the mill backyard/homestead breeds of chicken. You can't compare apples to oranges

Hatchery stock are better bred for production. More productive, Healthier. And much easier to replace. As I mentioned before I see no need to reinvent something that has been proven inferior in the past. But that's just me. And I respect those that do like to dabble in antiques and history. Nothing wrong with that. If nothing else it does create pretty pictures and good conversation.

If I was looking for a good egg producing breed for a homestead type environment. I'd create one through outcrossing and using the hybridizing method. I believe I'd take a high producing Mediterranean breed like a leghorn of some type and cross it over some game hens. Both are highly alert to everything in their environment. Both are built for foraging and hustling their own feed. They can both fly well. The leghorn type will make the cross productive and make eggs larger. The game type will introduce broodines to the cross. Turn them loose and let them do what they want. Yet teach them to come when fed and train them to roost in a coop at night. If not the game blood will have them high in the trees regardless the weather.
Back cross to the leghorn side to further reduce the broodines, make egg production higher, keep the fowl little closer to home and if course get away from the fight craze the good game stock has bred into it
Just theorizing. I have never actually done this. And this cross would be worthless for meat from our modern standards
 
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Whew--I finally got to the end of this thread. I'm new to BYC, have had chickens for eggs for a few years. Started with a few birds given to us and then bought pullets and then chicks. Want to start breeding our own. Feeling a bit daunted by the comments about hatchery chicks and confused by the advice to get good stock from a breeder, but lots of disagreement about who has good stock or even if it is readily available. (Same issue last year when we started raising rabbits for meat--we just ended up getting what we could find that was healthy and getting them off pellets and onto feeding mostly forage and hay, growing fodder this winter, already replaced starter does with best from the best does litters last summer) 
This spring we need new chickens and this time I want to get ones that forage well, grow more of our own feed, and start breeding our own replacement stock instead of buying chicks every couple years. We keep chickens mostly for eggs but will eat the extra cockerels if we're hatching our own chicks.Won't expect them to be really meaty. No interest in showing. Enjoy all that grows on the farm but not attached to the hens being a particular color or "style". I'm not looking to sell eggs--just to produce our own eggs. I'm not looking for birds that could compete in a show or to be the fastest growers or record-breaking layers. Is it realistic to hope that over time, by selecting the ones that do best at foraging, coping with the cold and snow, laying the most consistently over the year I could have hens that would be well adapted to this place and our ways of housing & feeding?
I'll be buying hatchery chicks from a feedstore unless I can find someone in my area that has birds to sell from a backyard flock. Given my goals (and the opinions some hold about all hatchery chicks) does it matter if I start with a mix or with one breed? Any suggestions about what the breed(s) should be?


I'm not near as knowledgable as others on the heritage types and I definitly don't believe in a dual purpose breed. But if meat isn't a main priority and you want eggs my first thought is a hatchery black sex link. Straight run. They lay very well. Quick to mature. Are a larger chicken than the other sexlinks. So there is a little more meat on them than those other strains. Butcher The cockerels. And if you did want to dabble in breeding them. Than I'd suggest contacting one of these breeders of RIR or NH, purchas and have them ship you a brood cock or stag to cover the black hens.
The F1 will retain good laying ability and you should have a little more carcass weight
 
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Dead Rabbit, I've always been a proponent for heritage not hatchery. But in restrospect, I understand where you are coming from. My Blosl and XW White Plyouth pullets are over 8 months old and still NOT laying. I think maybe they won't be part of my egg business. Selling hatching eggs, yes, but buying ISA Brown pullets when it's time for me to get started. I will buy a good New Hampshire rooster to get some Golden Comets as well as a few Delawares. But both heritage and hatcher;y have a place and I'm going for them :D
 
I'm not near as knowledgable as others on the heritage types and I definitly don't believe in a dual purpose breed. But if meat isn't a main priority and you want eggs my first thought is a hatchery black sex link. Straight run. They lay very well. Quick to mature. Are a larger chicken than the other sexlinks. So there is a little more meat on them than those other strains. Butcher The cockerels. And if you did want to dabble in breeding them. Than I'd suggest contacting one of these breeders of RIR or NH, purchas and have them ship you a brood cock or stag to cover the black hens.
The F1 will retain good laying ability and you should have a little more carcass weight

What would you pick if you wanted them to breed true?
 
What would you pick if you wanted them to breed true?

You will be making something altogether different from a true breed. You will be adding some size to the offspring and hoping to keep the lay rate up.

Best of luck and keep us posted!
 
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Dead Rabbit, I've always been a proponent for heritage not hatchery. But in restrospect, I understand where you are coming from. My Blosl and XW White Plyouth pullets are over 8 months old and still NOT laying. I think maybe they won't be part of my egg business. Selling hatching eggs, yes, but buying ISA Brown pullets when it's time for me to get started. I will buy a good New Hampshire rooster to get some Golden Comets as well as a few Delawares. But both heritage and hatcher;y have a place and I'm going for them :D
You are right they both have their place. I've enjoyed the posts, discussion, and laying out of plans. This is the third best thread I've ever read on this site. The heritage types can't compete with the modern hybrid type which wouldn't take much to make them a breed. The heritage are fun to talk about reminisce about, and continue dabbling with for a hobby. Some may take it a little more serious than that which is cool. But if production from the standpoint of sheer numbers are the goal hatchery hybrids can't be beaten. I'm glad others do continue to breed them. I just don't myself go this route. Perhaps when I'm older and more time I'd go try this but it would be something a little more ornamental and pleasing to the eye. I'm quite the fan of bantam types As for the ISA BROWNS. these are the best layers of extra jumbo size eggs I've ever had. Too big. I'd have to give the cartons to the customers with the tops open. Plus by a year old the shell quality was poor. But I've since learned that this was probably a product of free ranging
 
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What would you pick if you wanted them to breed true?


I recommend going to Post #2460 follow that link and study the breeding methods on how to breed and maintain a line of fowl. These methods have been used and proven successful for centuries. Starting with good birds is the secret and Culling is your best tool.

The genetics in this proposed cross are so diverse you would have to inbreed and line breed to set a strain, in order to get some Consistancy. But something like this is a crap shoot to start with. To go past the first few generations you would definitly need to keep multiple "yards" (brood pens)
 

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