BREEDING FOR PRODUCTION...EGGS AND OR MEAT.

[hellbender]

I'm partially groaning and partially chuckling about your dad's behavior, but have lots of empathy. My own father was the same way. He could be the best patient for the first couple days and then would go completely stir crazy and start becoming "unmanageable". He actually confessed to me that he thought they would get so tired of him they'd give him his way if he were an ugly enough patient. I countered by saying they have drugs and simply choose to subdue him....using the largest needle they could find for the injection, or really big and cold suppositories.

At least feistiness can be a good sign of a strong spirit. right?

Thanks again for the update, Ariel. Lots of love to you and your family.

Thank you.

Ariel

 

[Beekissed]

This is an interesting discussion.

Most that reject the concepts of alpha training outright tend to have concerns that are grounded in an ideology. They would often equate asserting ourselves as a negative, and somehow harmful to animals. I will admit that some carry it to far, but it would be easy to miss an important block in the foundation. It is foundational.

I agree that this can transfer to many parts of life. I am a firm believer in corporal punishment for children, and particularly young boys and men. I am convinced that someone has to be in charge. If we will not be, they will.

Now I am not referring to abusive behavior towards man or beast. I will put it this way. My sons are teenagers. It is has been years, probably 7-8 years since any physical contact has been necessary. And we enjoy a peaceful home. We are consistently complimented on our well mannered, behaved, and thoughtful young men. Even that much of that is in spite of me, much of it is due to being raised in a home that had expectations and accountability. They have been comfortable enough to flirt with the line here and there, but they knew by the sound of a voice where too far was. They also understood that I decided where the line should be. We never corrected for honest mistakes, but we dealt with matters of character head on and without fear. BUT, what makes all of this work is trust. I would absolutely never want to see a fearful dog or child. My boys need to be able to trust in how much they are loved. They need that assurance. It is necessary.

So to avoid communicating the other extreme, there needs to be a balance. Alpha training is not all of it. It is part of it. As we all would agree.

Bee, society in general views any difficulty as bad and to be avoided. We have forgotten that gold is refined in a fire. We want a problem free everything to include a problem free faith. We live in the health and wealth society. We want a health and wealth faith to. This is to say that this worldview envelopes everything. We live in a me first society, and therefore everything revolves around me. I am the center of my own universe. I am my own morality, and if something makes me uncomfortable, it is determined to be bad. So an extension of that view is that I do not want to make anyone else uncomfortable, even at the expense of that person or animal. We have lost our moral compass, and we have lost that clarity and certainty.

Another point we are missing in all of this is the hollowness that is inevitable when suffering, sorrow, and disappointment do finally come. When the harsh realities of life do come, we are consumed by them. Sun melts the ice, and it hardens the clay. Often what seams good is bad. Concerning my character, winning the lottery would be very bad. Also concerning my character, my house burning down and losing everything in it could be very good, if it brings me back to the things that do matter.
I am trying to describe what we have lost (as you know). We used to understand that correction was necessary and that it was good. That trials and temptations produced wisdom, character, and patience. But . . . . we also trusted. Trust is an essential piece. We have made it all about me, and eventually we see that me is not enough. Me cannot control everything in me's universe.

And Bee, I have noticed that these have trouble with all animals and people to. I see them foolishly thinking that their ideology really works in real life. LOL. They are so removed from reality, and self centered that they cannot see past their own nose. These are all online trying to understand the problem, and when you share the simple clear truth with them, they are offended. You become the bad guy, because it is more discomfort on top of discomfort. It is salt on an open wound.

As a people we are on a slippery slope. All it will take to destroy us is our own weight.

Exactly...and well put! Speaks volumes of sound principles that produce trust in relationships built on consistency in expectations and definite limits.

 

[gevshiba]

No, not a chicken, but I have a new project. His mom was old and she gave him all she had. She died today. Poor guy is nearly starved to death. But he took right to the bottle, despite being an older calf.

 

[gjensen]

No, not a chicken, but I have a new project. His mom was old and she gave him all she had. She died today. Poor guy is nearly starved to death. But he took right to the bottle, despite being an older calf.

Veal?

Seriously, he is cute.

 

[gevshiba]

Veal?

Seriously, he is cute.

Right now he's bones.

The owner will supply all the food and I'll take care of him. Then we'll split the profit when he sells.

 

[NanaKat]

No, not a chicken, but I have a new project. His mom was old and she gave him all she had. She died today. Poor guy is nearly starved to death. But he took right to the bottle, despite being an older calf.

Have been right where you are many times....actually more times than I can count. One of the most recent was a three week old whose mother quit giving milk....also came from a neighbor who said "if you can save him, he is yours." So glad you got him before he was too weak to suck a bottle...tube feeding is a challenge. Since the calf is so young and malnourished....give him a bottle of colostrum to protect his immune system. We set a schedule of three bottle feedings a day of milk replacer and increased the amount at each feeding each week for the first two weeks. Once he is up to 3 quarts a feeding, then you can begin to go to two feedings a day dividing the total of milk into those two feedings...the bucket feeder becomes your best choice unless you want to use multiple bottles each feeding. The sack of milk replacer should have a schedule on it but the guideline is for a calf you are taking off milk sooner than you should. Better weight gain occurs when the calf is kept on milk replacer and feed. It is a balancing act... Start adding as much green grass to his manger as you can find. Hay is good, but greens stimulate the gut. Teach him now to eat creep feed...even if you have to hand feed it to him until he gets used to it. Get him up in his stall and make him exercise...he should want to head butt and play...if not, make him walk around his stall...outside too. We put on a halter on and trained several to a lead rope. Activity keeps the digestive processes active. Watch for scours and pneumonia and treat immediately. When he is 4 to 5 weeks old, go ahead and give him an 8 in1 shot.

 

[NanaKat]

This is our last success story...the pictures show from beginning to finished calf

 

[gevshiba]

Have been right where you are many times....actually more times than I can count. One of the most recent was a three week old whose mother quit giving milk....also came from a neighbor who said "if you can save him, he is yours."
So glad you got him before he was too weak to suck a bottle...tube feeding is a challenge.
Since the calf is so young and malnourished....give him a bottle of colostrum to protect his immune system.
We set a schedule of three bottle feedings a day of milk replacer and increased the amount at each feeding each week for the first two weeks. Once he is up to 3 quarts a feeding, then you can begin to go to two feedings a day dividing the total of milk into those two feedings...the bucket feeder becomes your best choice unless you want to use multiple bottles each feeding. The sack of milk replacer should have a schedule on it but the guideline is for a calf you are taking off milk sooner than you should. Better weight gain occurs when the calf is kept on milk replacer and feed. It is a balancing act...
Start adding as much green grass to his manger as you can find. Hay is good, but greens stimulate the gut.
Teach him now to eat creep feed...even if you have to hand feed it to him until he gets used to it.
Get him up in his stall and make him exercise...he should want to head butt and play...if not, make him walk around his stall...outside too. We put on a halter on and trained several to a lead rope. Activity keeps the digestive processes active.
Watch for scours and pneumonia and treat immediately.
When he is 4 to 5 weeks old, go ahead and give him an 8 in1 shot.

Thank you for the advise. I raised one before and lost another. This calf looks really young, but he's actually 3-4 weeks. The owner was out of state and no one noticed the old cow dropping weight until it was too late. We had her up in a pasture by the barn so I could feed her, but she refused to drink and went down fast. The calf has some energy and looks bright and alert. Unfortunately, he's 6 miles from my house and I'll be making my 5th trip over today in a bit.

 

[DesertChic]

@gevshiba and @NanaKat You're photos are making me want to have a cow.

 

[Mini Meat]

Jason called last night to tell me dad is getting belligerent and wants to come home now and the doctors and other staff are getting fed up with him. I called dad and he seemed calm at that time. Instead of being discharged, I think they might throw him out. I know he can be willful but I doubt he's the most contrary patient they have had. Aaron will be here Saturday, assuming he will be home by then. I see where there have been additional posts made but still there are no notifications. I hope it's not something I did but I don't think it's a problem that can't be fixed by a more experienced person than me.

Ariel

Just e-mail the head nurse a picture of his avatar here on BYC and explain that that is what he turns into if he is kept under artificial light for too long.

They should release him in no time.