BREEDING FOR PRODUCTION...EGGS AND OR MEAT.

[NanaKat]

 
From the way things look, this will be my last update.  Aaron, who is a RN-Charge Nurse in Louisville Ky, tells me that dad's progress is not exceptional  but is what is to be expected with a successful procedure and no problems were encountered.  They no longer hold patients in hospitals for days on end if vitals are normal or very near normal and we can expect his release in a relatively short time but even Aaron wouldn't venture a guess...he just said sooner than I think.

Thanks again for all the support.  I will still lurk for a few days if no one mines me using dads avatar.  When he gets home, I'll have Jason fix my laptop and join BYC.

                                                                                                                           Ariel

This is such great news! I look forward to hearing from your dad again and from you as you refocus on your own projects. Lots of love! 

I so agree with you!

 

[NanaKat]

I have messed something up because there is no mail coming from any of dad's subscriptions on BYC.  I know some threads go silent for a while but for all to go quiet seems strange. Other mail is arriving.Anyhow, dad is still connected to the IV but walks around freely and is pressing the doctors for release.  According to Jason, dad is just about normal and even looks like it.  He has shaved his head since his time in Viet Nam and again, according to Jason, he looks himself but with a two and one half inch long incision very near the scar from the original surgery.   I don't think the doctors there are so easily pushed around or dictated to and I'm glad.  I want him home but not at any serious health risks.

Thanks for reading.  It calms my nerves to type here.  I'll have Jason look at this PC as soon as we get dad settled.  He will either correct the problem or make it worse.

                                                                                                 Ariel

Thank you for the wonderful updates.

 

[draye]

 Well . . . . that would be other than typical, but it might work.

 I have never been unsuccessful with dogs and chickens. I simply will not allow contact, I win, and they learn.



 I would be more confident with a puppy. I realize that there are dogs that I might not be successful with.

She is not in direct contact with them just near. I don't like putting something together that might end up not too well. So the contact should be minimal.

She is still really a pup just a big one, I think she's less than a year old. I just wanted something that would deter the would be murderers ( chicken murderers). Hoping that if she's around they'll stop coming and feasting on my flock.

 

[gjensen]

She is not in direct contact with them just near. I don't like putting something together that might end up not too well. So the contact should be minimal.

She is still really a pup just a big one, I think she's less than a year old. I just wanted something that would deter the would be murderers ( chicken murderers). Hoping that if she's around they'll stop coming and feasting on my flock.

I would expose them. That is how I teach them. I intentionally expose them, realizing that they will likely fail. Failing is an opportunity to teach. I correct accordingly. I have never not been successful.

I do not beat dogs. I do assert myself however, and they do know who is in charge. I use a balance of old school alpha training and positive reinforcing. I believe a healthy concern for stepping out of line is to override their instincts to chase the birds. Some dogs and breeds would require a different approach than what I am used to. I tend to have dogs that require a bold alpha personality.

A sister's dog and brother's dog come to visit. They have learned also. I can leave them and mine unattended with my birds all day an night. It is funny to watch the birds lounge and hang out with the dogs, or steal dog food from their bowl etc.

I say all of that to say that we can be successful. Here they have to because the birds came first. I want peace and harmony here and will have it. LOL.

I do not know Blood Hounds. They are all different.

They do not live long.

Just having a dog there changes the dynamics, as you already know. Her being there may completely deter all of the misc. Coupled with securing the birds at night, your problems may go away completely.

I lock my birds up at night. Coupling a good fence with good a dog(s), I have no predation issues currently. I believe in good dogs and a good fence.

 

[Beekissed]

I agree! Early exposure makes for training opportunities that sink in. I have a pup I'm currently training for LGD duties and he's now 3 mo. old. I got him at 2 months and he has been living with and among the chickens all that time....he took a few seconds of training on the chickens being mine, two verbal corrections when my back was supposedly turned~after I had returned to the house but was still watching~and he now treats them like part of the landscape.

Same training I used on my~now old~dog when he was 5 mo. old. I don't think there is any profit by keeping the dog separate until they are older and can't learn as quickly as they can as a pup.

I am also currently teaching him basic obedience which also goes hand in hand with alpha training, positive reinforcement and opportunities to make mistakes. I get to correct him when small children come into his space, how to act around company that comes here, how to act when children are around while he is eating, how he should act around them when THEY are eating, etc.

I think dogs are much like children...training should start the day they come home and should be an ongoing thing all their lives, but that first ground work is the most important if you want them to know the rules of where you live. I like peace and harmony among all my animals and I expect no less...they need to know what you expect or they just stay confused most of the time.

 

[Fire Ant Farm]

Today was the day to swap out leg bands on the littles (5.5 weeks old). (I use numbered colored zip ties from Strombergs.) It was nice to do it on a weekend morning, because I could take my time gathering each bird and also sit in the tractor to observe them up close. Anyhow, in the process, I got a really good feel for the body size/shape/quality of each bird (gjensen, I think, mentioned the importance this, and others as well). Very useful, and more information than can be gleaned from weight data alone. All the Naked Necks, big (boys) and little (a few of the smaller girls) had the same "meaty" body feel - wide, breasty, sturdy. The New Hampshire Reds definitely seem more like a strain where egg laying was the selection factor (not a surprise, I guess) - even the largest ones were more "light fowl" feeling to me (similar conformation to my Cream Legbars when they were little). All of the NHs could be held/restrained easily in one hand (when cutting off the old legband), whereas I couldn't wrap my hand around the body of any of the Naked Necks, even the smaller ones, and had to hold them against my chest.

Anyhow, in the spirit of talking about production, I found it interesting to handle both types of birds on the same day - it made differences really obvious.

(On another thread, someone was talking about the German New Hampshires that are really big and impressive - does anyone know of a source for these? @gjensen weren't you working on/keeping New Hampshires as well as your main project breed?)

- Ant Farm

 

[gjensen]

I agree! Early exposure makes for training opportunities that sink in. I have a pup I'm currently training for LGD duties and he's now 3 mo. old. I got him at 2 months and he has been living with and among the chickens all that time....he took a few seconds of training on the chickens being mine, two verbal corrections when my back was supposedly turned~after I had returned to the house but was still watching~and he now treats them like part of the landscape.

Same training I used on my~now old~dog when he was 5 mo. old. I don't think there is any profit by keeping the dog separate until they are older and can't learn as quickly as they can as a pup.

I am also currently teaching him basic obedience which also goes hand in hand with alpha training, positive reinforcement and opportunities to make mistakes. I get to correct him when small children come into his space, how to act around company that comes here, how to act when children are around while he is eating, how he should act around them when THEY are eating, etc.

I think dogs are much like children...training should start the day they come home and should be an ongoing thing all their lives, but that first ground work is the most important if you want them to know the rules of where you live. I like peace and harmony among all my animals and I expect no less...they need to know what you expect or they just stay confused most of the time.

I agree and you made a point that I did not think to say. Starting as soon as they are there, and while still in the shock of the new environment is helpful. They learn to conform to their environment. Much like children.

On the side. I have a new pup to. An Akbash. I have always admired them. I have him as much for selfish reasons as anything else, but I hope he can provide estate security to. He was quick to pick up on the chickens, but I am having a little more trouble with the cat. LOL. The cat provokes him to play, but on her terms. When she has had enough, she runs. He gives chase, and then I notice. LOL. I guess it is like having a pesky little sister.
I have read the warnings, and I see early, this breed is not for everyone. I like this dog though. He might happen to be what I have been looking for. He is showing signs.

 

[gjensen]

Today was the day to swap out leg bands on the littles (5.5 weeks old). (I use numbered colored zip ties from Strombergs.) It was nice to do it on a weekend morning, because I could take my time gathering each bird and also sit in the tractor to observe them up close. Anyhow, in the process, I got a really good feel for the body size/shape/quality of each bird (gjensen, I think, mentioned the importance this, and others as well). Very useful, and more information than can be gleaned from weight data alone. All the Naked Necks, big (boys) and little (a few of the smaller girls) had the same "meaty" body feel - wide, breasty, sturdy. The New Hampshire Reds definitely seem more like a strain where egg laying was the selection factor (not a surprise, I guess) - even the largest ones were more "light fowl" feeling to me (similar conformation to my Cream Legbars when they were little). All of the NHs could be held/restrained easily in one hand (when cutting off the old legband), whereas I couldn't wrap my hand around the body of any of the Naked Necks, even the smaller ones, and had to hold them against my chest.

Anyhow, in the spirit of talking about production, I found it interesting to handle both types of birds on the same day - it made differences really obvious.

(On another thread, someone was talking about the German New Hampshires that are really big and impressive - does anyone know of a source for these? @gjensen weren't you working on/keeping New Hampshires as well as your main project breed?)

- Ant Farm

Yes, I especially appreciate the New Hampshires. Liked them before they were cool again, LOL. I try to avoid selling any, unless someone was really needing some, and they were breeding them. Locally, I share layers and birds for the soup pot etc. Right now there are good options. If that was to change, I would be more motivated to sell. If you were local, I would give you whatever you needed.

Luanne does have them. Cpartist on here. She has done well with them. She just posted a couple pictures of some pullets on the German New Hampshire thread. Take a look at those pullets She sells chicks or eggs, and is NPIP. That is who I strongly recommend. She is honest.

Here is a picture of a young cockerel. There is much more flesh on him than the hatchery Cornish etc. He was heavy. They are big birds. Mine have been deep, and wide birds like a NH should be. Well, they got better, and I was fortunate to have some pop up early. I hate the narrow cut off birds floating around now. And people take pictures of them and win shows, LOL.




Once you try these, you will never get another NH from a hatchery again. I promise.

 

[Beekissed]

My pup is of similar breed but a mix of three: Great Pyr/Anatolian/Maremma. He's all white and is lanky like the Anatolian, with the long, curly tail and has short hair but seems to have a Maremma type head. I don't see much of the GP in him but it may lend some bulk to his frame later on. A very calm, true dog that's eager to please but is confident in his actions...seems much older than he is. He's responding very well to training and has learned much in just a short time.

I'm hoping he will ward off my most frequent predator....stray or wandering dogs. I have a new neighbor that lets his chicken killing dog run loose, though he's been warned that this area is not conducive for that kind of dog management and that he will likely loose his expensive dog in that manner. He chooses to ignore the warnings. I'm hoping this breed of dog and this dog's nature will develop to be such that would keep me from having to kill the neighbor's dog. My current dog is too friendly to other dogs to perform this function.

 

[Fire Ant Farm]

Yes, I especially appreciate the New Hampshires. Liked them before they were cool again, LOL. I try to avoid selling any, unless someone was really needing some, and they were breeding them. Locally, I share layers and birds for the soup pot etc. Right now there are good options. If that was to change, I would be more motivated to sell. If you were local, I would give you whatever you needed.

Luanne does have them. Cpartist on here. She has done well with them. She just posted a couple pictures of some pullets on the German New Hampshire thread. Take a look at those pullets She sells chicks or eggs, and is NPIP. That is who I strongly recommend. She is honest.

Here is a picture of a young cockerel. There is much more flesh on him than the hatchery Cornish etc. He was heavy. They are big birds. Mine have been deep, and wide birds like a NH should be. Well, they got better, and I was fortunate to have some pop up early. I hate the narrow cut off birds floating around now. And people take pictures of them and win shows, LOL.




Once you try these, you will never get another NH from a hatchery again. I promise.

This is extremely helpful - Thank you!

- Ant Farm