BREEDING FOR PRODUCTION...EGGS AND OR MEAT.

[DesertChic]

Well, after a month of being on restricted activity I'm finally free to return to "normal" life, so today is a well overdue processing day. I'm taking it slow and only processing two birds...one to brine for dinner and one to practice caponizing on before freezing.

This is the first one...one of my (favorite) NN cockerels, Ozzy. He processed out at 5.075 lbs @ 35 wks. Has anyone seen such red skin on a bird they've processed?

 

[Rock Home Isle]

THis is some of what I have been reading lately--

http://www.thepoultrysite.com/artic...-nutrition-and-forages-summary-and-references

Wonderful information.

 

[Rock Home Isle]

 Matt, Smart's comments are true. Hogan's system is not a breeding program. It often is not the case, where the best performing birds, produce excellent performing birds. It was also shown later to not be as reliable as originally thought. It is reliable enough, for backyard, or small farm.

 The commercial industry moved towards "proving" the performance (more reliable), and proving the breeders. Particularly the sires, because of how much influence they have. They would test huge amounts of males, and track the inheritance. That is a breeding program.

 There is so many examples where the best birds do not produce the best birds, not matter what traits are considered. One example is studies where the inheritance of resistance to particular pathogens was not found to be reliably produced by parents that were themselves resistant. They made faster progress by test mating survivors that did succumb as well as those that did not. Using both allows the breeder to make faster progress. This would be a bad way to manage disease in a small flock however. These were flocks that were intentionally exposed. Obviously the best management tool in a small flock is to cull any bird that gets sick.

 That sounds crude to some but the strain of birds worked with is better adapted to their environment through the generations of birds, but especially the breeders.

 What this shows, in part, I believe, is the inheritable influence of the family behind the birds.

 When a gene pool is tightened up, like in a well bred exhibition birds, the results are reliable. But of course there is still some degree of variation in the flock. Selecting the best birds is generally the best idea. It is usually noted along the way where one bird produces more of tis or that, and therefore useful for this or that. Possibly a bird that is not especially strong themselves.

 Proving the breeders in my Catalana flock will be part of the process. Of course I am picking the best offspring to move forward with, but I need to emphasize the breeders that have produced well, or a trait where I am short.

 Hogan's system is not as perfect as it was once thought. There are some exaggerations that go along with it. It is still the best system for us, when we keep the other systems in mind.

 I think the best options for us is to use the basics of this system to identify who comes into lay first, who goes into molt last, who comes back into lay first, weed out chronic non producers etc. With the absence of trap nests, this is our best option.
 Obviously, we should be using the best producers from the best typed birds, in keeping with what defines the breed. Also raise them as closely to the system that they fit the best, because different birds will sometimes perform better or worse under particular conditions. They always do better when they are "happy",

 Matt this is addressed to you, but written for the general audience. Some thoughts to consider.

I am very familiar with Hogan's published work...this is so insightful

 

[jbkirk]

Well, after a month of being on restricted activity I'm finally free to return to "normal" life, so today is a well overdue processing day. I'm taking it slow and only processing two birds...one to brine for dinner and one to practice caponizing on before freezing.

This is the first one...one of my (favorite) NN cockerels, Ozzy. He processed out at 5.075 lbs @ 35 wks. Has anyone seen such red skin on a bird they've processed?

Yes, the cock that I just butchered had his bum plucked for a long time and it looked just like that.

 

[Kusanar]

Quote:
Maybe that's her plan! Try not to look like she would taste good!

 

[CanadianBuckeye]

I am very familiar with Hogan's published work...this is so insightful

@gjensen 's posts have set me on what I hope is the right path, he's helped immensely and given my program focus. I'm sorry he hasn't posted lately, but I do re read previous posts by him and others when I lose track. The writings of the older chicken experts (like Hogan and Jull and the others) are valuable resources, still valid today I believe.
I've had chickens before, but last year was the first year I had a specific goal for them. One thing I've found difficult (but not unexpected) was the length of time it takes to hatch, rear and select birds to move up with- a year sounds like nothing when you read it, but actually waiting 21 for eggs to hatch seems like an eternity!
I put more than 100 eggs in the incubator, selected for size and shape, and kept only the earliest hatching chicks. Ones that took more than 22 days, that had difficulty hatching, I culled right at hatch. I hope that's a good start. Now I'm growing out chicks, I can see tremendous differences in size and vigour, that were not as apparent with a small chick population. I have 92 chicks, which I will select the best from. Then the hard part, the egg production statistics. But I don't have to deal with that just yet!

 

[CanadianBuckeye]

Well, after a month of being on restricted activity I'm finally free to return to "normal" life, so today is a well overdue processing day. I'm taking it slow and only processing two birds...one to brine for dinner and one to practice caponizing on before freezing.

This is the first one...one of my (favorite) NN cockerels, Ozzy. He processed out at 5.075 lbs @ 35 wks. Has anyone seen such red skin on a bird they've processed?

Is the red from the sun on the naked skin?

 

[Kassaundra]

Is the red from the sun on the naked skin?

The red is hormonal not sun"burn" it is from the sun partially, all chickens, but males more than females have a hormonal reaction in the skin to sun exposure turning them bright red like that. It is not noticeable in feathered chickens. It is very noticeable in the nakeds, when they get their clothes off in the spring.

Desertchick, I've not had one stay that red after processing, I wonder if it will lighten w/ brining?

 

[DesertChic]

The red is hormonal not sun"burn" it is from the sun partially, all chickens, but males more than females have a hormonal reaction in the skin to sun exposure turning them bright red like that. It is not noticeable in feathered chickens. It is very noticeable in the nakeds, when they get their clothes off in the spring.

Desertchick, I've not had one stay that red after processing, I wonder if it will lighten w/ brining?

I'm wondering too. So far he's been brining for nearly a day and he's still all pinked up. His daddy's skin is always red...ALWAYS, not just during periods of arousal so I'm wondering if it's a genetic trait.

 

[DesertChic]

Maybe that's her plan! Try not to look like she would taste good!

LOL, she's actually got a really impressive growth rate so instead of eating her I'll probably just incorporate her into my meat breeding line. If I ever DO eat her, I just make sure I coat her skin with a nice spice rub to hide the color.