BREEDING FOR PRODUCTION...EGGS AND OR MEAT.

[gjensen]

Regarding year round eggs -- This is why having two breeds (even if you only have a rooster in one breed) can be of benefit. Some one emailed me the other day about Light Sussex chicks this spring. I have a standard "warning" about light susssex ( not really a warning but a heads-up) they lay through out the winter and stop between May - June and won't pick up again until September-October so I will always suggest they get a second breed (Not from me because I only have the one!) often times I suggest a production red - or something of that nature to balance out all year production.

I prefer one breed for eggs. By having both a generation of pullets and hens, I am never am without eggs. Even when the hens are molting. There is some seasonal variation in my flock, but I am never without eggs.
I could not call a breed or strain productive that took an entire season off unless the were mothers and rearing chicks. To me, those girls are still working.

 

[gjensen]

Ok this is going to sound odd... Get a ruler and your middle three fingers.... well really you only need your fingers. If you can't fit at least three of your fingers (the three middle ones) between a hens pelvic bones cull them out of your breeding flock. The wider the better. It works good. Also you can tell when a pullet will start to lay this way to!

There is individual variation, but there is natural variation throughout the year. I would cull any that were chronic non layers, but if they were all in molt and not lying . . . . I would not recommend culling an entire flock for no reason.

It is my opinion that these methods are best suited to monitor the flock seasonally. Find out who quits first for the molt. Who quits last. Who returns to laying sooner, etc. etc. Anybody considering these methods should know their flock well, and use these methods as a tool. Not a one time decision maker.

 

[gjensen]

Where?!? Where re the charts for weights and ages? I have been
trying to find them but it looks like they are some kind of secret, sigh.
Thanks,
Karen

Karen, if you are wanting to make improvements, you have to get to know the tendencies of your flock. Then you have to make a decision about what your ideal is, considering the breed you are working with. If you decide that you need to make improvements, it is best to set realistic generational targets. This stuff is breed/strain specific and you have to make your own judgments, and have your own ideal in mind.

Karen, you have a good understanding of what a good Sussex was. They were a broad, deep, and long fowl that were good to fatten up for the table. Roasting weights come later than fryer weights, but you do not want to wait too long into the Stag stage. For a lot of these birds, breeds, strains it as much about how they grow out as when they grow out.

You just have to find your own ideal, and work with what you have. And if you do not have Sussex that is long, deep, and broad it would not matter much when they or how they grow out. One has to go with the other.

 

[hellbender]

I'm really pleased that this thread has garnered some following. Thanks to all...even the lurkers!

EDIT:I'm aware that my decades of experience, trying with some considerable success in producing a couple strains of really good layers leaves me with still a dearth of knowledge. But it does bother me just a bit when some people believe their pontifications have been dredged from the Piperian Spring or was sent down to them from high upon Mount Sinai.

I sometimes let them get under my skin and I confess to that weakness.

 

[Arielle]

Quote: If I might use my misc mutts in my main flock for this eval---- all my girls quit so that by the end of the first week of Dec the eggs had completely stopped. THe ages vary from 1-3 years old. I wormed them, then rewormed 10 days later. and now 10 days later the girls, a few of them are starting up again. But only a few.

I was concerned that a heavy parasite load was the problem. OR the lighting was an issue.

Should I make a note of the hens that have started to lay again. ANd if so what is the value. Or maybe the point is to identify any that DON"T start up again??

( Still new to chickens and learning)

I'm really pleased that this thread has garnered some following. Thanks to all...even the lurkers!

EDIT:I'm aware that my decades of experience, trying with some considerable success in producing a couple strains of really good layers leaves me with still a dearth of knowledge. But it does bother me just a bit when some people believe their pontifications have been dredged from the Piperian Spring or was sent down to them from high upon Mount Sinai.

I sometimes let them get under my skin and I confess to that weakness.

FOrgive me for laughing a bit, as I suffer the same fate. I try to play nice in the sand box.

 

[call ducks]

Quote: If I might use my misc mutts in my main flock for this eval---- all my girls quit so that by the end of the first week of Dec the eggs had completely stopped. THe ages vary from 1-3 years old. I wormed them, then rewormed 10 days later. and now 10 days later the girls, a few of them are starting up again. But only a few.

I was concerned that a heavy parasite load was the problem. OR the lighting was an issue.

Should I make a note of the hens that have started to lay again. ANd if so what is the value. Or maybe the point is to identify any that DON"T start up again??

( Still new to chickens and learning)

Yes that is exactly what to do. The three finger method is about who is laying.

 

[Highcotton]

As I previously posted, I've had considerable experience with dogs too.  You don't have to go back 100 years to see the dramatic changes....a quarter of that time will give adequate reason to be shocked, even to the untrained eye.

Hogs too. I am amazed to see the Hampshire, Duroc, and Berkshire that we raised in the 50's and 60's coming back as heritage breeds. Now favored for their flavor. We crossed a Hampshire boar with Duroc sows to get the better growth for the feeder pigs. I see more factors with chickens. One is flavor for meat chickens and some of the crosses provide lots of large eggs but the laying life of the hens is shortened.

 

[call ducks]

So my forthcoming project that I am gathering stock for is.... Rhodebars - they have an intresting history. Meant to be a more productive version of the RIR I don't think they really ever achieved that. But I am going to try and change that!

I have lined up about three dozen eggs from two different sellers ( umm.... Would not call them breeders though, as far as I can tell this is their first year with rhodebars...), and should be getting another two - three dozen production red eggs ( these are true production reds that are bred from RIR stock but solely selected for laying ability). That will give me some nice foundation stock to start with. I will try to have two groups to start with.

Group A - Rhodebar cock in with the production red hens - I will then take those resulting f1 hens that will be barred and select for production traits.

Group B - Pure rhodebar group - cocks that will be kept are purely double factor cocks - unless there is an exceptional cock that only carries one copy of the barred gene.

These two groups will give me a nice base line to start with. I will be intertwining the production reds closely with the Rhodebars - I will be starting with egg size and production moving on.

I have a lot of work ahead of me - This maybe the most ambitious rhodebar project undertaken in North America.

 

[ronott1]

So my forthcoming project that I am gathering stock for is.... Rhodebars - they have an intresting history. Meant to be a more productive version of the RIR I don't think they really ever achieved that. But I am going to try and change that!

I have lined up about three dozen eggs from two different sellers ( umm.... Would not call them breeders though, as far as I can tell this is their first year with rhodebars...), and should be getting another two - three dozen production red eggs ( these are true production reds that are bred from RIR stock but solely selected for laying ability). That will give me some nice foundation stock to start with. I will try to have two groups to start with.

Group A - Rhodebar cock in with the production red hens - I will then take those resulting f1 hens that will be barred and select for production traits.

Group B - Pure rhodebar group - cocks that will be kept are purely double factor cocks - unless there is an exceptional cock that only carries one copy of the barred gene.

These two groups will give me a nice base line to start with. I will be intertwining the production reds closely with the Rhodebars - I will be starting with egg size and production moving on.

I have a lot of work ahead of me - This maybe the most ambitious rhodebar project undertaken in North America.

Sounds like a great project!

 

[Arielle]

Quote: What is the lifetime of the layers that have a shortened life??