BREEDING FOR PRODUCTION...EGGS AND OR MEAT.

[gjensen]

The roo I am using a Welsummer. What do you think of his legs and breast??

He lacks a well rounded breast, and has a shallow keel.

He does have good width for his type. The shanks are appropriately sized for his size.

He would be a bird that is heavier than he appears. Many are just the opposite. These days we depend too much on feather to define the type. Feather should only refine transitions and accent type. Not make the type.

The under fluff obscures the thighs, and has to be felt for. That is typical, but he appears to have good thighs for the type.

 

[Beer can]

It is certainly genetic. Highly heritable. It is not learned behavior.

Are you sure chickens don't learn? I saw one acting on Saturday Night Live the other night Lol.
Yeah I'd say my fathers were probably genetic. They looked like pure rc RIR but I know he mixed some of what he called back in the early '80s 'fighting banties' not sure what kind of bantam it was but it probably could explain why his reds were good broodies. I think he liked a mean rooster because they were free ranged.
I personally won't have it, not going to make my kids afraid to go outside. We had to stay clear of where they were and avoid the flock.

 

[gjensen]

Are you sure chickens don't learn? I saw one acting on Saturday Night Live the other night Lol.
Yeah I'd say my fathers were probably genetic. They looked like pure rc RIR but I know he mixed some of what he called back in the early '80s 'fighting banties' not sure what kind of bantam it was but it probably could explain why his reds were good broodies. I think he liked a mean rooster because they were free ranged.
I personally won't have it, not going to make my kids afraid to go outside. We had to stay clear of where they were and avoid the flock.

Of course they learn, but this trait we have been discussing is genetic. The darned things have a few screws loose, and we perpetuate it by breeding them.

I picked this up as a kid. I had a few along the way. I had a habit of keeping just one male, and that was a bad habit. That was before I knew any better.

It is not a breed thing. It is strain or line thing, and can become established quickly by tolerating it.

There is a misconception that they are better protectors etc. They are often the first to tuck and run when things go bad. Most of them (not all of them) like to get you when your back is turned LOL. They are not all of the same of course.

When I was a kid, I had no building skills so I did not have a gate to my pen. I had chicken wire nailed around a group of trees. I had to cross it, in and out. With one rooster I was never concerned going in. It was the coming out that was a problem. LOL. I knew to cross a little faster coming out than going in. Especially if I had shorts on. I put up with it because I did not know any better.

I had ducks (Pekins) at the time, and had the same problem but it was not spurs I was worried about. It was the bill. That darned thing would leave some nasty blood blisters on a pair of bare legs.

It is a wonder I ever kept an interest at all. It is not worth all of that.

Along the way I realized that it was genetic, and could be bred for or against.

I have kids to, and they help with the birds. One has birds of his own. Some little game bantams. They will not tolerate it either. They would be quick to say that "he has to go".

 

[Beekissed]

I've never had the misfortune to have a mean acting rooster in all these years, which is pretty amazing when you think about it....I've had many breeds from many sources and even some breeds that folks always report nastiness from~leghorns, RIR, etc. I've had a few try on the human for size...mostly cockerels coming into sexual maturity and a quick correction changed their mind and attitudes completely and for good, never to be repeated. After that many years and birds, I tend to doubt there are many true "man-fighter" roosters out there and certainly not as many as I read about on BYC...if there were, surely by the law of averages, I'd have run across one of those in the past 40 yrs.

I have noticed this, though...some people seem to have "mean" roosters no matter what breed they have or from what genetic source. Funny thing is, these same people seem to have unruly dogs, bratty and unmanageable children, mean tom turkeys, nasty geese, bratty horses....you name it, if they've raised it from a youngin', they've got bratty creatures on their hands. I think most any creature can learn when they've got a pushover in charge of them and push those boundaries, learn what they can get away with and then act out on it. Those very same creatures~be it human, animal or bird~can have another person walk into their territory and get vast~and immediate~differences in behavior from that creature...be it human or animal.

Just like any other creature, chickens fall under that nature vs. nurture type of controversy and most scientists have pretty much agreed that it's mostly a combination of both of these things that form the personality/temperament of most any creature.

 

[Beer can]

@Beekissed Nah, Lol. My parents raised good kids, our dog a beagle bluetic mix was a sweetheart. Dad just liked his roosters mean.
Never had a problem with predators for many years, not even dogs. But maybe he was just lucky.

My five kids are a little on the bratty side, little monsters, and I have a rooster that is calmer and nicer than any of the hens.

 

[DesertChic]

I think it makes it easier to transition to butchering your own birds if the first one is a snarky rooster. Sounds bad but it's the truth. Our first one was a problem like the one you mentioned - pecking us and grabbing skin and twisting. We did have one that was fine in the beginning but then for no reason turned into a full-out fighter that just would not submit to us being the boss and tried to spur us in the face while we were bent over. It was a relief when we ate him and no longer had to mess with him anymore. He was good with his hens, but had no respect for people and we were not going to live with that forever. Very few of our males are able to live together except while they are still cockerels from the same hatch that are growing out. But that doesn't translate into being people-aggressive. They are just territorial when it comes to other male chickens being in their space. We even have two sons from our worst fighter but they did not get their father's temperament or they would have been dinner a long time ago.

This is most definitely the case with me. This cockerel is part of my first flock of chickens and just happens to be my son's favorite bird, and up until this situation had been one of my favorites as well. I had promised my son from the start that I wouldn't butcher any of my first flock birds unless there was a problem. Well...aggressiveness is most definitely a problem. I've found myself sizing up this cockerel in an effort to determine how much meat I'll get off of him, and I've already informed my husband that it's time for us to set up the slaughter station. But...yesterday I had a "talk" with this cockerel and he submitted to me pretty darn quickly. Still no problems with him this morning. I've set a deadline of Spring Break. If he gives me any more grief between now and then he'll become Spring Break Roast Chicken with Honey, Lemon and Rosemary.

 

[gjensen]

This is most definitely the case with me. This cockerel is part of my first flock of chickens and just happens to be my son's favorite bird, and up until this situation had been one of my favorites as well. I had promised my son from the start that I wouldn't butcher any of my first flock birds unless there was a problem. Well...aggressiveness is most definitely a problem. I've found myself sizing up this cockerel in an effort to determine how much meat I'll get off of him, and I've already informed my husband that it's time for us to set up the slaughter station. But...yesterday I had a "talk" with this cockerel and he submitted to me pretty darn quickly. Still no problems with him this morning. I've set a deadline of Spring Break. If he gives me any more grief between now and then he'll become Spring Break Roast Chicken with Honey, Lemon and Rosemary.

Be sure if you like him. Occasionally a cockerel will test the waters, but that does not mean he will end up a problem.

You will know if he is or not in time.

It has nothing to do with management. Some just are. Fortunately, most are not, except in some lines.

 

[hellbender]

Be sure if you like him. Occasionally a cockerel will test the waters, but that does not mean he will end up a problem.

You will know if he is or not in time.

It has nothing to do with management. Some just are. Fortunately, most are not, except in some lines.

Aside from the 'pain in the butt' so deftly dealt a while back by the Naked Neck, the absolutely worst floggings I have ever received have been by bantam cocks and we never owned a single bantam...ever.

When I was young, I would visit the homes of various friends and it seemed that everyone but us had the spiteful little things and they were quick to take offense. We were never allowed to defend ourselves, on penalty of death aka (Azz Beating) so we had to do our best to stay clear of them....more often than not, having to leave the vicinity of their homes and entertaining ourselves in the nearby woods. We usually carried our BB guns and you can have ON idea how often we plotted our revenge but none of us (that I'm aware of) had the nerve to actually shoot one of the miserable things!

 

[hellbender]

Beware: For those of you who are getting chicks or planning orders from breeders or hatcheries, there is considerable 'BUZZ' about flocks being shut down due to Avian Flu. AI

Don't take this post as your only point of reference. Do your own due dilligance and chech what other sources you may have access to.



https://www.google.com/webhp?source...=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=avian influenza outbreak

 

[bmvf]

So, it finally got above freezing this week and suddenly I realize how much needs to be done either before or soon after the new baby (due in 2 weeks) arrives. I have my 6 small fruit trees to prune, new grape vines and berries to plant, and the entire garden to work and plant when the snow finally disappears. I'm hoping to go organic-ish no-till using raised beds which need to be formed. Also this year we're attempting to go to spring seasonal calving with the dairy herd. Breeding will start in 5 weeks and will be a hectic/frantic push to get cows pregnant by the end of May.

I also want to do another hatch and may use one of my new Delaware males on my NH's. I did 2 hatches this year with my NH's and had miserable results. First batch 10 hatched of 42 eggs. As I PM'd @gjensen , 18 of the unhatched had fully developed chicks that appeared to die a few days before the others hatched. I had issues with my hot water system 3 days before hatch and the room the incubator was in got hot with temps in the incubator spiking above 102 degrees (circulated air). So I tried again with a new batch of eggs within the week with worse results. I started with 35 eggs and removed 3 infertile at candling. I had 7 hatch. Two unhatched eggs that I had time to open had fully developed chicks again. So there goes my temp spiking theory and I'm back to square one. All chicks except for two that I helped hatch (yes I know not to help) are doing very well. None will be used for breeding stock.

I had a very successful hatch last fall with this incubator, but did it in a different location and with different birds. I don't think it's the new birds. I noticed this past time when I removed the incubator that the temp gauge was near the motor for the auto turner. Could it have showed a warmer temp than the rest of the incubator? Also, I only used one thermometer although this is one I used last fall for the successful hatch. The incubator was kept in the supply room of my milk house where I keep my vacuum pump, furnace, rear of the bulk tank, hot water system, etc. It's very warm and dry there even with temps dropping outside to negative digits. It was tough to keep humidity levels up in the incubator especially late at hatch. Adding water in the morning would raise it, but by evening I had to add more water. Also, I didn't know if the loud noise of the vacuum pump and the possible vibration would cause any harm.

One other question, if I want to switch roosters, is 4-5 weeks is long enough? The Del males will be 5 months old in three weeks. And that reminds me..... I also have to butcher the lesser male Delawares and any pullets I don't want. They're starting to fight with each other. Maybe today.....