BREEDING FOR PRODUCTION...EGGS AND OR MEAT.

[DesertChic]

It would seam that you could grow greens in beds throughout the winter?

Rape is more tolerant of heat and warm soils than what you mentioned. Here, I can get more for the dollar growing it. I grow it to full height, and cut and carry. I do not know what it would cost for you to get the seed etc. It is a more economical "field crop", over a "garden vegetable".

I do like to grow turnips. Once I am out of pumpkins and winter squash, I turn to turnips. I impale them on a nail with the tops in the house. I replace them as necessary. It gives them something to peck at on the coldest days.

I noticed that your area was seeing more rain than what is typical. It made me long to visit. I love how it smells in the desert before and after a rain.

Right now I'm rather limited to garden beds because our soil here is practically sterile. We live on what used to be a quarry and I'm finally in a position to start working on soil improvement...with help from my chickens. The area around my house is open range and I actually collect some of the cow manure to add to the soil, along with decaying straw, leaves, pine shaving, and anything and everything I can turn into compost. Eventually I hope to grow various grasses, clover and other mixed cover crops for the chickens to forage as our "nut grass" is pretty awful....hardy, but awful.

My garden itself is pretty small and other than tomatoes and lettuce, which my family consumes in abundance, I've decided to devote most of the available soil to consumables for the chickens. As I'm able to expand the area I look forward to adding more variety. I've never attempted to grow rape. I'll do some research on it. Thanks!

 

[Mini Meat]

We have green things here from late fall to late spring. It is the summer time when we go barren. With the drought I was not able to have any irrigation. No garden.

I am trying some thing different for winter protein. I got several large loads of wood chips to which I am adding horse manure and letting the birds mix the two. When the mix is right I fill up 3'h x 4' diameter wire round with the mix. My hope is if I let the rounds cool they will be colonized by insects looking for a good place to over winter. I am building many and hope to open one every couple of weeks for a protein treat for the birds. I don't know if this will work but at least it will give them something to do.

I did notice something while working on this project all summer. The birds went nuts for the fresh horse manure. They eat great amounts of the manure. I don't know how much nutrition is in it but it is essentially just fermented grass and alfalfa, so it seems to me it should not harm them and the pre processing may make nutrients more available to the birds. I did not intend it as a feed source but if they find it that appealing who am I to argue. Mind you, other than blackberry leaves there are not many eatable greens right now.

I am curiose what others make of the poop eating.

 

[DesertChic]

Dad will be released or evicted on Friday 23 provided he gets the okay from the medical staff after rounds on Thursday. Getting discharged from any hospital requires a ton of paperwork and it is not likely they will be out of the facility before well into the afternoon on Friday. The plan is for dad and Jason to stay at the hotel Friday night and leave out of NYC by mid morning on Saturday.

Ariel

Outstanding news! I remember all too well how long that discharge process takes. Somehow a 7:00 a.m. discharge doesn't result in the patient actually being able to leave until well after lunch...or in my case, dinner. Ugh!

Safe travels to them both. I'm sure they're both ready to be home.

 

[DesertChic]

I am curiose what others make of the poop eating.

Gross! But....I don't have to eat the stuff, so it's all good. In studying "grass farming" I actually read that waiting for about three days before giving chickens access to the manure proves the most advantageous for increasing protein as it takes that long for the insect larvae to develop sufficiently.

 

[gjensen]

We have green things here from late fall to late spring. It is the summer time when we go barren. With the drought I was not able to have any irrigation. No garden.

I am trying some thing different for winter protein. I got several large loads of wood chips to which I am adding horse manure and letting the birds mix the two. When the mix is right I fill up 3'h x 4' diameter wire round with the mix. My hope is if I let the rounds cool they will be colonized by insects looking for a good place to over winter. I am building many and hope to open one every couple of weeks for a protein treat for the birds. I don't know if this will work but at least it will give them something to do.

I did notice something while working on this project all summer. The birds went nuts for the fresh horse manure. They eat great amounts of the manure. I don't know how much nutrition is in it but it is essentially just fermented grass and alfalfa, so it seems to me it should not harm them and the pre processing may make nutrients more available to the birds. I did not intend it as a feed source but if they find it that appealing who am I to argue. Mind you, other than blackberry leaves there are not many eatable greens right now.

I am curiose what others make of the poop eating.

It is hard to say why without more details. Are they on a bagged ration? Could they have a deficiency?

It is not unusual for them to eat some, but I do not know what great quantities are.

Some of the old timers used to give some to conditioning cocks to scratch in. They claimed it help put color in their combs etc. They fed by eye, and by results. I have theorized that they benefited from probiotics before they knew what it was.

 

[gjensen]

Right now I'm rather limited to garden beds because our soil here is practically sterile. We live on what used to be a quarry and I'm finally in a position to start working on soil improvement...with help from my chickens. The area around my house is open range and I actually collect some of the cow manure to add to the soil, along with decaying straw, leaves, pine shaving, and anything and everything I can turn into compost. Eventually I hope to grow various grasses, clover and other mixed cover crops for the chickens to forage as our "nut grass" is pretty awful....hardy, but awful.

My garden itself is pretty small and other than tomatoes and lettuce, which my family consumes in abundance, I've decided to devote most of the available soil to consumables for the chickens. As I'm able to expand the area I look forward to adding more variety. I've never attempted to grow rape. I'll do some research on it. Thanks!

Plant large turnips. Plant a dense planting. Baby them. Let them mature and then rot right there in the soil. They will add a lot of organic material to the soil, and feed the soil microbes.

 

[draye]

We have green things here from late fall to late spring. It is the summer time when we go barren. With the drought I was not able to have any irrigation. No garden. 

I am trying some thing different for winter protein. I got several large loads of wood chips to which I am adding horse manure and letting the birds mix the two. When the mix is right I fill up 3'h x 4' diameter wire round with the mix. My hope is if I let the rounds cool they will be colonized by insects looking for a good place to over winter. I am building many and hope to open one every couple of weeks for a protein treat for the birds. I don't know if this will work but at least it will give them something to do.

I did notice something while working on this project all summer. The birds went nuts for the fresh horse manure. They eat great amounts of the manure. I don't know how much nutrition is in it but it is essentially just fermented grass and alfalfa, so it seems to me it should not harm them and the pre processing may make nutrients more available to the birds. I did not intend it as a feed source but if they find it that appealing who am I to argue. Mind you, other than blackberry leaves there are not many eatable greens right now.

I am curiose what others make of the poop eating.

That is good for the birds. I remember As a child visiting my grandparents, they always had chickens around their place. My grandad had a big run fixed for all tge chickens but it was fixed so as they had access to the pastures, one side he'd keep his cows and tge other side he'd keep the horses. They were rotatesms every day to the opposite side. Anyway the chickens would leave their run during the day and follow along behind the cows or horses depending on whichecside they preferred to go into picking and scratching through the poop left behind. Those sure were some if the best eggs I ever eat too.

 

[Mini Meat]

It is hard to say why without more details. Are they on a bagged ration? Could they have a deficiency?

It is not unusual for them to eat some, but I do not know what great quantities are.

Some of the old timers used to give some to conditioning cocks to scratch in. They claimed it help put color in their combs etc. They fed by eye, and by results. I have theorized that they benefited from probiotics before they knew what it was.

By great quantities I would say they fill their crop as soon as it is dumped. I actually checked crops before and after one time.

They are on 20% grower as an all flock. I also scatter oat, wheat, peas, milo, boss, millet, milo over their range to encourage them to spread out and forage. Insects are plenty during the warmer months. I keep a whole bale of fine textured alfalfa under cover for them to nibble as they please. I think the only thing lacking is live greens.

I agree that the probiotic benefit of the manure could well be the motivator as the probiotics would make it a live green food of a sort.

 

[Mini Meat]

Gross! But....I don't have to eat the stuff, so it's all good. In studying "grass farming" I actually read that waiting for about three days before giving chickens access to the manure proves the most advantageous for increasing protein as it takes that long for the insect larvae to develop sufficiently.

Yes, I refuse to kiss them on the beak... lol.

 

[gjensen]

Two questions:

1) What are the best ways to increase protein when adding carbohydrates such as sweet potatoes or turnips? In the "old" days per my old 1942 book on keeping poultry on scraps, where they were dealing with wartime rationing, there was a lot of fish scraps being cooked into submission and mixed with mash (don't really want to do that). Does one maybe switch to a game bird ration for a period time? Other supplement?

2) Unrelated question, probably answered here before but I can't seem to recall details - meat production data is straight-forward - you can weigh each bird. But what is the best way to track egg production (including beginning to lay again after moult) without trap nests? (I know you can track how long they are in mount and check pelvic spread, etc., but I figured the proof is in the eggs.) Perhaps if you have a sense of who lays what kind of egg, and the colors are different in a given coop? I saw a photo of a coop (sort of a "glamour shot," really), and there was this cute chalkboard with egg talley's for each (named) hen. I found myself asking "How on earth do they know?" The photo implied that each hen had her own nest (which doesn't really happen). It bugged me, and made me want to ask here again.

- Ant Farm

Sweet Potatoes and Potatoes are in the 1%-2% protein range. Check that, but I believe it is that low. To have a 18% ration, a 36% food item is needed equally. Soybean meal is that high, but it is not complete.

You mentioned fish scraps, and that is an option if limited (so your eggs do not taste like fish). Purchasing fish food is an option. It is in the 36% - 42% range. Get floating feed for fingerlings etc.

I tend to view these root crops as supplements themselves, so it does not require much if anything. I tend to feed higher than I need, but it is easy to spend more than we need.

Older breeders, or others during periods of maintenance (like winter) can be fed a 14% ration and be fine. You just have to bring them back into condition before you breed them.

The best way (and there is no equal) to track laying production is to count eggs. Simply marking them on the calendar and totaling them getting small pen averages. Kept in small pens (we all do), we can use the other methods to HELP us identify the poorest layers, and remove them. The average will improve drastically by removing these. When we know them like this, we do tend to identify the best layers. Not with precision but the best in general. If laying was a primary focus, you would want to breed from their sons. Then prove these sons by trying different males on the same pens and evaluating their offspring over an entire laying cycle.

You cannot beat trap nests. The best selection point is the one closest and most directly related to the desired result. The pullet that laid the most eggs from point of lay until the molt is the best layer. There is no disputing that if her eggs were comparable to the others in quality and size, and her health was equal.

Selecting layers for physical traits gives them potential, capacity, and encourages health and longevity.

And for what you are doing, you will need a good set of scales.