breeding Heritage, and rare exotic breeds

[punky rooster]

Quote:
Your sumatras looks very nice!

Unfortunately I already got 10 chicks from Ideal, but if I do not like their strain, I will buy a few dozen eggs from you. Thanks for posting the pictures!

I will post the pictures of them when they feather out completely, and see what you think of them. Right now they are 1 week old.

Not trying to be rude, but I can already tell you they will not be what any breeder looks for in a Sumatra. If you are just wanting them for just "birds" they will be fine but if you want a real sumatra you need to start with good birds from some breeder.

Yes, I have to agree.

 

[cybercat]

Quote:
First welcome to the world of purebred animals. This is a long and some times frustrating road. With that said here is my 2 cents.

Do not buy alot of chickens from many sources. Stay away from big hatcheries there stock will not breed true. Have coops built before bringing in chickens. Work only with 2 breeds max to start. You are new to all this and it is a big learning process to learn about the breeds you want to work with. Join the breed clubs and talk to those breeders already working with the breed you wish to work with. Buy the SOP and study it. Each breed has it own shape, stuctrure ect. Now for true pure breeding you will have to keep hens separte and not in a flock. That way you can put best males with hens that they would work best with and not with just any hen. Flock breeding will not improve stock very fast only pairing will do fast upgrading. Think now of what you will do with all your cull stock. Since you will be raising hundreds of chicks and not keeping most. Selling them is not considered a good idea since they are culls from a breeding program. Reason why you are trying to improve a breed why sell your culls that are no good to the public. How does that improve the breed, that harms it. Not too mention gives you a bad reputation at the start that you will not over come for years.

Now on to feed. Corn is not what you want to grow. It is too low protien and too fatening. Look too some else like field peas, armanth, beets something that they can thrive on. You will need tons of it too since you want alot of chickens. You are looking at 5 or more acres tied up in feed just for one flock of 30. That's too feed for whole year. This is putting into figures of spoilage and bugs ect. You will not get the whole 5 acres to be good feed. Heaven forbid that you have a bad growing season and loose it all. Then what?

So plan ,plan and plan some more before jumping in. Good luck.

 

[Farmerboy16]

Quote:
Your sumatras looks very nice!

Unfortunately I already got 10 chicks from Ideal, but if I do not like their strain, I will buy a few dozen eggs from you. Thanks for posting the pictures!

I will post the pictures of them when they feather out completely, and see what you think of them. Right now they are 1 week old.

Not trying to be rude, but I can already tell you they will not be what any breeder looks for in a Sumatra. If you are just wanting them for just "birds" they will be fine but if you want a real sumatra you need to start with good birds from some breeder.

I want real sumatras, how can I tell if they are not a true strain? Maybe I can get a dozen hatching eggs from you now, and hatch them, then compare them as they grow? How much for your eggs? Thanks!

 

[punky rooster]

Quote:
Not trying to be rude, but I can already tell you they will not be what any breeder looks for in a Sumatra. If you are just wanting them for just "birds" they will be fine but if you want a real sumatra you need to start with good birds from some breeder.

I want real sumatras, how can I tell if they are not a true strain? Maybe I can get a dozen hatching eggs from you now, and hatch them, then compare them as they grow? How much for your eggs? Thanks!

Sounds like a plan!
Then you can see the difference between hatchery and breeder Sumatras.

 

[Farmerboy16]

Quote:
First welcome to the world of purebred animals. This is a long and some times frustrating road. With that said here is my 2 cents.

Do not buy alot of chickens from many sources. Stay away from big hatcheries there stock will not breed true. Have coops built before bringing in chickens. Work only with 2 breeds max to start. You are new to all this and it is a big learning process to learn about the breeds you want to work with. Join the breed clubs and talk to those breeders already working with the breed you wish to work with. Buy the SOP and study it. Each breed has it own shape, stuctrure ect. Now for true pure breeding you will have to keep hens separte and not in a flock. That way you can put best males with hens that they would work best with and not with just any hen. Flock breeding will not improve stock very fast only pairing will do fast upgrading. Think now of what you will do with all your cull stock. Since you will be raising hundreds of chicks and not keeping most. Selling them is not considered a good idea since they are culls from a breeding program. Reason why you are trying to improve a breed why sell your culls that are no good to the public. How does that improve the breed, that harms it. Not too mention gives you a bad reputation at the start that you will not over come for years.

Now on to feed. Corn is not what you want to grow. It is too low protien and too fatening. Look too some else like field peas, armanth, beets something that they can thrive on. You will need tons of it too since you want alot of chickens. You are looking at 5 or more acres tied up in feed just for one flock of 30. That's too feed for whole year. This is putting into figures of spoilage and bugs ect. You will not get the whole 5 acres to be good feed. Heaven forbid that you have a bad growing season and loose it all. Then what?

So plan ,plan and plan some more before jumping in. Good luck.

With my cull stock, I sell them to an Asian lady and her friends, she buys all that I don't want, young chickens like around 3 months old and up and my old roosters and hens, and I make some money off them to cover the expenses, which I thank God.

The feed- I already plan to grow armanth, flax, garden rice, sunflower, german fox tail millet, broom corn, pumpkins, and open pollinated corn which have higher protein then hybrid corn. I only grow heirloom crops, and save the best seeds for next years's crop. I will welcome any more advice on this. I have about roughly 15 acres to plant crops.

 

[Farmerboy16]

Just a thought, is there any way that I can improve the hatchery stock that I already have, to make it a good bloodline? Like a breeder's flock? Or, can I cross the hatchery's stock to the breeder's stock of the same breed? Or, sell all of the hatchery stock, and then find a good stock from a breeder? What if there is a few very good quality birds from a batch of 20 chicks from a hatchery, can I use those? Thanks for any input!

 

[phasian]

If you have hatchery stock that meets the APA standard (which is rare, but does happen), then you can certainly breed them with breeder stock. It is certainly preferable to have different bloodlines instead of linebreeding. I have bantam Barnevelders and there are very few different bloodlines for this breed. I am going to have to breed something else that is similar into them to refresh the bloodline and then breed back to the standard.

Another good source for rare breed poultry is www.sandhillpreservation.com. They have beautiful Sumatras- even frizzled ones. (Though a frizzled Sumatra is not an APA accepted trait, I really enjoy mine.)

Another great thing to grow for your chickens that the ALBC wrote about (& the same article was published in Backyard Poultry magazine) are mangels. These are a heritage root vegetable that chickens adore and is very good for them. I would also recommend growing lots of herbs. Rosemary, lavender, sage, chamomile, are all great to use in the bird's bedding to keep away parasites and flies. They also serve as wonderful tonic medicines for poultry. Echinacea, comfrey, aloe, calendula are also beneficial to have at hand.

Best wishes on your endeavours. It sounds like you've got some exciting projects in the works!

 

[Chris09]

Quote:
Sand Hill is getting more and more like a hatchery and from what I have seen of there stock I'm not impressed.

Though a frizzled Sumatra is not an APA accepted trait

This is incorrect, have you read the APA Standard of Perfection?
The Standard of Perfection says,"Frizzles may be shown in any breed and variety set forth in this Standard of Perfection."


Chris​

 

[NYREDS]

It is certainly preferable to have different bloodlines instead of linebreeding

I'm not sure where you got this notion but it couldn't be more wrong. Talk to anyone who successfully breeds exhibition poultry & you'll find that they line breed. Breeding unrelated bloodlines is an absolute crap shoot. There's no way to predict outcomes. Crossing "new blood" into an established strain is the best possible way to screw up a breeding program.​

 

[NYREDS]

Quote:
The comb, wattles , face & ear lobes should be gypsy, not red.