Bresse Chickens

[Fetch33]

I have been reading threads dealing with caponization. Since death by nicking an artery are common, what about using a cauterizing snare to grab the testes?

 

[Bresseman]

Did the chickens get any kind of anesthetic for the operation? After doing the operations how long did it take for the birds to die? This seems rather nasty experience for the birds. I would never like to do this to my chickens.

I don't want to offend anyone, but how can this thing be OK? If I tried to do it to my pet parrots, dog or cat I am sure I would face animal cruelty charges.

I am not vegetarian or some crazy animal lover. I eat my chickens, but like to raise them and kill them in a humane way. It must be very painful for the chicken and stressful, and if many die that must be a loss of money for the owner.

Can't they be raised as roosters together and then butchered when required without having to do this procedure?

I appreciate your concerns as they are mine also, however I am not convinced that the birds suffer an extreme amount, however I doubt that the operation is painless. Billions of chickens are caponized without anesthesia and or pain control throughout Asia and roosters do not go to waste. As a matter of fact I believe that the standard for chicken meat in Asia is the Capon. We in the US have become used to the Cornish Cross and they do not need to be caponized they reach their weight in 45 days and some could argue that our use of that hybrid is inhumane and unethical yet we continue to raise them. Ethics becomes very grey when we are talking about the food we eat that's why some folks become vegetarians or vegans. My thinking is evolving about the caponizing thing. I have two choices I could destroy every rooster that I produce or I can cause them some pain and allow them to lead a long and fairly comfortable life culminating in a quick death and a trip to the cook pot. I think it's a waste and totally unethical the way our hatcheries dispose wholesale of roosters and this is one way I can avoid that. Could I use anesthetics...yes but I can't afford to and I don't have a license to buy or administer anesthesia. There are many ethical dilemmas that we come across as folks who raise our own food and food for others. I try to limit how much suffering my birds go and I try to respect the birds I raise. I don't mistreat them in any way. Some might construe this as mistreatment and I might agree with them. However I think the only way to get the process perfected so the bird suffers less stress and less damage is to practice and one of the only ways to get better at doing a thing is to do it many times. Believe me I don't enjoy caponization but I hope the results will justify the birds short period of discomfort.

 

[Bresseman]

A cautery can be used. I think in my case it's a matter of the learning process and I genuinely was sorry to have lost the birds. What is interesting is that the first bird we did was the oldest and it went quite smoothly.

 

[mzstre]

A cautery can be used.  I think in my case it's a matter of the learning process and I genuinely was sorry to have lost the birds.  What is interesting is that the first bird we did was the oldest and it went quite smoothly. 
 

Have you considered practicing on birds you are processing, after they've been dispatched? That might allow you to become more proficient and comfortable with the procedure.

I am very interested in the idea of caponizing, but I can't personally get over the lack of anesthesia and having them suffer. I have a hard enough time with processing. I have no problems with cleaning and butchering, but DH has to dispatch them. :/

 

[bayocum]

Have you considered practicing on birds you are processing, after they've been dispatched? That might allow you to become more proficient and comfortable with the procedure.

I am very interested in the idea of caponizing, but I can't personally get over the lack of anesthesia and having them suffer. I have a hard enough time with processing. I have no problems with cleaning and butchering, but DH has to dispatch them.

I think this is an interesting idea and one I considered. We have not yet processed our first batch (they're about 2mos old) yet, and I'm not sure if we will attempt to caponize them or not. I realize this is supposed to help with meat quality and weight, but I wonder if part of the problem is that we expect our birds to dress out like cornish-cross. It's like we have taken the "super-size" concept into everything we eat. Joel Salatin has explained that he uses the cornish-cross because its what Americans want, but not because its the "right" thing to do. I think with enough pressure and active promotion, we might be able to change this mindset in some. True, a cockerel wont be quite as "tender" as a capon, but you also avoid the casualties. I really appreciate what Bresseman is trying to do and I will follow with great interest. If we can caponize effectively, I think its worth exploring. That said, I don't know if I can risk the loss for less than efficient outcomes. Thanks Bresseman, for taking the initiative here and exploring the process. Hopefully we can all learn more from your efforts. Out of curiosity, did you buy a caponizing kit, or make one?

 

[Bresseman]

Thanks for your kind words. I think that the issue here is the bottom line vs reality. Americans have been so acculturated to the Cornish cross that it's going to be an uphill battle to get them to value a tough, skinny rooster, young or not. Fact is we can barely give them away these days. The only folks who are processing and consuming cockerels are the folks who don't have to be converted. Heritage breeds will always be a specialty market! Restaurants in my area truly want them as do some farmers markets. However price point is truly a challenge. The point where the rubber meets the road is really American culture and the fast, cheap, unnaturally augmented food that we as a country have become accustomed to. I'm afraid that the market for the Capon and the Heritage breed will always be those who care about those traditions and those who are involved in the foodie and local food movements. Without these niche markets we who raise and propagate these breeds would have little to no market. Yes the local food and heritage markets are thriving but even in these niche markets there is a ceiling to cost. I have now invested more than I probably will ever see in profit. It's a good thing that expediency has not overruled my crazy desire to provide the ultimate chicken dinner. At least I and my family and friends will be able to experience these birds first hand.

 

[chiqita]

Did the chickens get any kind of anesthetic for the operation? After doing the operations how long did it take for the birds to die? This seems rather nasty experience for the birds. I would never like to do this to my chickens.

I don't want to offend anyone, but how can this thing be OK? If I tried to do it to my pet parrots, dog or cat I am sure I would face animal cruelty charges.

I am not vegetarian or some crazy animal lover. I eat my chickens, but like to raise them and kill them in a humane way. It must be very painful for the chicken and stressful, and if many die that must be a loss of money for the owner.

Can't they be raised as roosters together and then butchered when required without having to do this procedure?

Caponinsing is one of those things that is questionable, but has a LONG history. Its is most defiantly done in France to these birds and is done for other birds as well. I agree I am not sure if I can do it. However, I have seen capons walking around and they seem shockingly OK in a few days. Walking around, eating and drinking and running. So while it seems horrific, it does not seem to cause them long term pain. I know birds are good at hiding it, but they do not act well when really hurt either.

 

[chiqita]

Thanks for your kind words. I think that the issue here is the bottom line vs reality. Americans have been so acculturated to the Cornish cross that it's going to be an uphill battle to get them to value a tough, skinny rooster, young or not. Fact is we can barely give them away these days. The only folks who are processing and consuming cockerels are the folks who don't have to be converted. Heritage breeds will always be a specialty market! Restaurants in my area truly want them as do some farmers markets. However price point is truly a challenge. The point where the rubber meets the road is really American culture and the fast, cheap, unnaturally augmented food that we as a country have become accustomed to. I'm afraid that the market for the Capon and the Heritage breed will always be those who care about those traditions and those who are involved in the foodie and local food movements. Without these niche markets we who raise and propagate these breeds would have little to no market. Yes the local food and heritage markets are thriving but even in these niche markets there is a ceiling to cost. I have now invested more than I probably will ever see in profit. It's a good thing that expediency has not overruled my crazy desire to provide the ultimate chicken dinner. At least I and my family and friends will be able to experience these birds first hand.

I too wonder about this. How much is too much? You will never get the time back, and here in California, I cant even sell them unless they are processed at a FDA approved facility. That adds as much as feed to the cost of a young bird.

But after raising Marans, I have trouble eating store bought chicken.

DH would be doing the caponising, and he also has mixed feelings. I have a semi local friend who was taught by a guy in her area from Africa, I'm thinking about taking a few of us breese people up there and see if we can get lessons. I think seeing it done and learning to do it well would make a difference. And I believe its better then being killed at day one, or 1 week even, the other option for rooster chicks in volume.
Breeseman, I always learn a lot form your posts, keep posting! And everyone keep asking questions and debating, its how we see all the sides of an argument.

 

[McButterpants]

16 - 18 weeks is prettty late to caponize. I do my cx's & red bro/ rangers between 3-4 weeks and the heritage breeds all by 8 weeks max. It is much much easier to remove the whole teste at a younger age. You really have to get ALL the testicular material or you end up with slips, that includes the vans differens [ spelling is off I'm sure].
I'm going to be c,aponizing this weekend coming up and trying to shoot a video on the procedure but that may be in the next round of birds.
There are several threads 1 strated by Kassandra is very good. Be sure to check out the chinese guy too. He has the best rib spreader. I prefer vintage extractors the modern caponizing sets are garbage. See. The threadsplenty of discussion about them and better tools

 

[Bresseman]

I have five in a separate cage that are looking remarkably well, eating, drinking and no worse for wear. That doesn't mean they weathered the process without pain. Chickens have a remarkable ability to recover from injury. This Saturday I will remove them from the hospital cage and put them in with my Youngsters. I hear that one must keep alert as the docile Capons can be bullied by even the young cockerels. I'll keep folks posted on this whole process.