Buff Orpington

[ChookieChicken]

This is Chip. she’s a 7 month old Buff Orpington. hasn’t began to lay yet.

about a month ago I noticed that Chip had stopped eating. Upon first glance it seemed like she was, but she was pretending to eat by picking grains up and flicking them away. her crop was empty. she was drinking water but not a whole lot. she appeared a little lethargic.

within a day she began to do starvation poops (green, liquidy poops)
so I began force feeding her with torpedos (ground up pellets with water & egg, mushed into little torpedo shapes) while I waited for the vet appointment.
she wasn’t particularly impressed with the force feeding so eventually began to eat some torpedos on her own. I hand fed her 3x a day. Her poop returned to normal.

I took in a sample of her seemingly normal poop to the vet and they found an overgrowth of coccidia - about 4x the amount that is acceptable. She was put on Toltravet, taken orally to ensure she was getting the correct dose. to cover all bases incase of secondary infection, was also given a round (2 weeks) of Amoxyclav. about 3 days after her final dose, I found her eating her usual pellets on her own again! she was filling her crop very well.

I frequently examined her and noticed that despite her recovery and frequent eating, she hadn’t gained any weight back. her keel bone was very prominent with nothing on the sides. the first time she went to the vet they remarked that she was a normal weight. now she appeared emaciated to me.

as I was holding her, I noticed that her left eye was not constricting in bright sunlight, but her right eye was. This was a very new development as I check her over every day. I tested it inside with a torch and the left eye was still permanently dilated. it seemed she was even unable to see out of it.
I bought some avi-vital multivitamin liquid and gave it to her neat as per the instructions, 4ml/2kg in case of a vitamin B deficiency due to the previous coccidia.

emergency visit back to the vet as eye problems are always a cause of concern.

the vet examined her very thoroughly and weighed her - she went from 2kg on the first visit to 1.8kg. 200g lost within the month. he advised we start feeding her high protein foods like egg whites and mealworms. he said that there was no apparent physical damage to her eye but that she was definitely unable to see / struggling to see out of it. he couldn’t see any tumors behind or in her eye at this point. appetite still good.

I asked for a full blood panel and results came back showing she has a very high white blood cell count of 46,000. normal amount for a hen like her is 10-15k.

He believes that this alongside another marker suggests an active infection and possibly even early stages of sepsis. I’m thinking Ecoli but we’re not sure at this stage. it doesn’t entirely explain her sudden blindness in one eye.

as of current the vet believes this isn’t presenting quite like marek’s - even though it’s still on the table.

Back onto the amoxyclav for another 2 weeks alongside mealworms. multivitamin has been stopped as zinc and magnesium can affect the absorption of amoxicillin.

anyone had anything similar? anything I can do to help support her through this?

Located Melbourne, australia.

 

[Wyorp Rock]

I'm sorry to hear that Chip is not doing well.

Hopefully the medications will help.

Do you have Chick Starter or an All Flock type feed that you can feed her. I'd aim for 18-20% protein feed. Egg, fish or meat are also good to give for a protein boost.

Marek's disease is possible. There's an Ocular Form. I see a bit of irregularity of the pupil but hard to tell. @microchick or @coach723 may have better insights on the eye issue.

 

[ChookieChicken]

I'm sorry to hear that Chip is not doing well.

Hopefully the medications will help.

Do you have Chick Starter or an All Flock type feed that you can feed her. I'd aim for 18-20% protein feed. Egg, fish or meat are also good to give for a protein boost.

Marek's disease is possible. There's an Ocular Form. I see a bit of irregularity of the pupil but hard to tell. @microchick or @coach723 may have better insights on the eye issue.

thankyou, she is on a high % protein feed alongside mealworms and eggs for now, i might also introduce some fish. thanks for reminding me. my chookie, when sick with cancer, enjoyed boiled fish to get her protein in.

vet thinks it isn’t quite a mareks eye yet but could develop. I hate having to wait not knowing.

 

[coach723]

In my birds with Marek's the pupil tends to contract rather than dilate. It's a slow process, but it gradually shrinks, sometimes to a pin point. A couple of pictures below. I do see color change in the iris, hard to say what's going on for sure. There is a PCR test for Marek's that can be done on a live bird, but I don't know whom, or where, it might be available in Australia. I will attach a link to a Texas lab that does it, might be worth an ask to your vet.
https://www.vetdna.com/application/forms/aviansubmittalform.pdf

 

[microchick]

Groannnnnn. Poor baby.

There is definitely something inflammatory going on in that eye, @ChookieChicken. If the vet had done a more careful examination on Chip's eye they would have seen a uveitis probably caused by a herpes virus....aka ocular Marek's disease. Everything looks 'steamy' on her on the one eye and the color of the pupil is starting to change from a healthy red/brown to a sickly gray/green.

The question is what is causing the white count to be so high? Is it bacterial or viral? If it's viral the antibiotics are not going to do much good other than stave off a secondary infection. If she's going through the initial infection from Marek's at this point, time will tell.

If you are dealing with OMD the good news is that it won't kill her immediately IF she survives the initial infection. I agree with everything @coach723 posted. You are doing all that you can do for her as far as supportive care is concerned.

I would make sure that she has a shaded or dim area to be in out of the bright sun as the eye is painful for her even if she doesn't have good vision in it. But IMHO I would say that the number one diagnosis is Ocular Marek's Disease.

 

[ChookieChicken]

In my birds with Marek's the pupil tends to contract rather than dilate. It's a slow process, but it gradually shrinks, sometimes to a pin point. A couple of pictures below. I do see color change in the iris, hard to say what's going on for sure. There is a PCR test for Marek's that can be done on a live bird, but I don't know whom, or where, it might be available in Australia. I will attach a link to a Texas lab that does it, might be worth an ask to your vet.
https://www.vetdna.com/application/forms/aviansubmittalform.pdf

View attachment 3748571
View attachment 3748572

In my birds with Marek's the pupil tends to contract rather than dilate. It's a slow process, but it gradually shrinks, sometimes to a pin point. A couple of pictures below. I do see color change in the iris, hard to say what's going on for sure. There is a PCR test for Marek's that can be done on a live bird, but I don't know whom, or where, it might be available in Australia. I will attach a link to a Texas lab that does it, might be worth an ask to your vet.
https://www.vetdna.com/application/forms/aviansubmittalform.pdf

View attachment 3748571
View attachment 3748572

they said they could do a mareks PCR, but that results would take 10 days and that it frequently comes up with false positives. its expensive. So I decided on full panel first instead to see if there were any other markers that could point either towards or away from mareks. thankyou for the link & sorry to hear about your birds.

 

[ChookieChicken]

Groannnnnn. Poor baby.

There is definitely something inflammatory going on in that eye, @ChookieChicken. If the vet had done a more careful examination on Chip's eye they would have seen a uveitis probably caused by a herpes virus....aka ocular Marek's disease. Everything looks 'steamy' on her on the one eye and the color of the pupil is starting to change from a healthy red/brown to a sickly gray/green.

The question is what is causing the white count to be so high? Is it bacterial or viral? If it's viral the antibiotics are not going to do much good other than stave off a secondary infection. If she's going through the initial infection from Marek's at this point, time will tell.

If you are dealing with OMD the good news is that it won't kill her immediately IF she survives the initial infection. I agree with everything @coach723 posted. You are doing all that you can do for her as far as supportive care is concerned.

I would make sure that she has a shaded or dim area to be in out of the bright sun as the eye is painful for her even if she doesn't have good vision in it. But IMHO I would say that the number one diagnosis is Ocular Marek's Disease.

would you be able to point out the uvevitis to me? I gave it a quick google but i’d like to know exactly what part you’re talking about for future reference. I noticed the colour change but wasnt sure if this is a marek’s sign, or just a sign of blindness. regardless, sudden blindness is very concerning and i’m not sure if an infection on its own would cause this eye problem.

re: OMD, is there any chance of long term survival provided she gets through the initial infection, or does it often end up fatal regardless?

the high white blood cell count is definitely a scare as we can’t pinpoint it right now. he did say that another marker points towards it likely being bacterial. I forgot what he said it was.

I’m so worried for my baby. i’ve been bawling my eyes out every night. I just want her to be okay.

she’s thankfully still eating. I gave her some plain boiled fish alongside her mealworms and boiled egg whites. but it breaks my heart to see her occasionally miss her food due to her poor vision. I know she probably doesn’t think anything of it but it’s hard.

 

[coach723]

I have had birds with occular Marek's live for several years. Others go quicker, it's very hard to predict. Many of mine live normally for a while, but the eye sight slowly diminishes until they can't see at all eventually, if they live that long. Some of them do also develop visceral tumors (on organs) as well, they pass quicker. It's hard to know specifically until necropsy, that's when everything gets answered.
Uveitis is inflammation in the middle part of the eye. When the cause is known then you can look for specific signs, when the cause is not known then symptoms can range from redness and soreness, light sensitivity, any changes to the eye, color changes in the eye, cloudiness, blood in the eye, etc. An ophthalmologist can examine an eye and tell you specifically what they think is going on, they can look at all parts of the eye, front, middle, back, test the pressure, etc. I have a cat with chronic idiopathic (no known cause) uveitis, which is suspected to be auto immune, so am very familiar with those types of exams.

 

[microchick]

Thank you @coach723 you explained it perfectly.

My husband treated a lot of it in his practice. It is extremely painful and extremely devastating to vision.

She could have a secondary bacterial infection but that isn't what is causing the eye problem.

You can give your feathered baby a 81mg 'baby' aspirin for discomfort. Of course it isn't going to treat what is happening but it might relieve some of the discomfort. If I have something going on with one of my birds that involves pain from an eye injury I usually give them one a day for a few days to get them through the rough patch.

I had, if memory serves me correctly, 3 or 4 birds with OMD. Their eyes looked a lot like Coach's with the wildly constricted pupil but the iris was the sickly gray green that I mentioned. There looked to be swelling within the eye also making it protrude slightly also.

Survival rate was variable also. The shortest lived one was a rooster who died approximately one year after diagnosis and the longest was a little bantam cross hen who lived to be three. It seemed like the ones who lived the longest succumbed to stroke like neurological symptoms, paralysis on one side, etc, and had to be euthanized. She had very limited vision but believe it or not got along pretty well. She never went outside and I had to make sure there was food and drink where she could find it but other than that she was a sweety until the disease took her.

I understand your pain right now. Anyone who has dealt with the reality of Marek's does. This is painful emotionally but IF you lose a bird or have to euthanize please consider having a necropsy done by a state lab so you get a definitive diagnosis and know where you stand.

My flock started with Buff Orpingtons which unfortunately are highly susceptible to Marek's if that is what you are dealing with. Sweet gentle birds. So live each day with your Chip. You are an excellent Feather Child Parent and are doing all you can for her.

 

[ChookieChicken]

I have had birds with occular Marek's live for several years. Others go quicker, it's very hard to predict. Many of mine live normally for a while, but the eye sight slowly diminishes until they can't see at all eventually, if they live that long. Some of them do also develop visceral tumors (on organs) as well, they pass quicker. It's hard to know specifically until necropsy, that's when everything gets answered.
Uveitis is inflammation in the middle part of the eye. When the cause is known then you can look for specific signs, when the cause is not known then symptoms can range from redness and soreness, light sensitivity, any changes to the eye, color changes in the eye, cloudiness, blood in the eye, etc. An ophthalmologist can examine an eye and tell you specifically what they think is going on, they can look at all parts of the eye, front, middle, back, test the pressure, etc. I have a cat with chronic idiopathic (no known cause) uveitis, which is suspected to be auto immune, so am very familiar with those types of exams.

Thankyou for all of this info. I'll keep a close eye on her and update in the thread. If she does end up passing away, I will definitely be getting a necropsy