California - Northern

I'm fascinated by all the talk of cross breeds. Since Delawares are the result of a cross. I was wondering about trying to produce my own lines should I ever get the space to try something like that.

Breeding chickens is a LOT more complicated than looking at the color calculator and putting a few birds together.

Kathy, who recreated the Delaware, had to breed hundreds of chicks in order to get the silver sports that she needed in the first couple years. I think she ended up with 4 breedable pullets out of 300.
I bought F4s from her and they have nice type but still don't have standard coloring. Most of the fifth generation chicks that I'm producing still look like they have too much barring.

So, recreating a Delaware is a long process, you don't get Delawares from just crossing a BR x NH.

I'm trying to understand the chicken calculator its kind of confusing. Maybe I need to sit with someone.
Probably don't know the base colors etc for some breeds.

Dorkings /Delawares and Silver Laced Wyandotes all look very similar to me (SLW not so much but the color pallet is the same) Just wondering what crossing such would end up looking like.

Also wondering what the reverse (NH Roo and Rock hen) cross for delawares results in.

Many people who raise chickens don't realize that it's the type (shape) that makes a breed a breed, not the color. If you took a giraffe and somehow made it have zebra stripes, it would still be a giraffe.
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It would be a very poor example of a giraffe, too!
That's exactly what's happening with many breeds of chickens. Breeders are focusing on all the colors and producing poor type birds with fancy coloring. The feathers are pretty- but underneath is a shape that does not define the true breed.

Here are some photos from the APA Standard that I modified, trying to remove the color and show the shape. (The APA Standard is copyrighted and can't be reproduced. Hope this is ok.)
This is a Dorking and a Delaware. Look at the outline shape of the birds. They are nothing alike!

My point here is that, if you want to breed purebred ie standard bred chickens, you need to pay attention to type first, and color/pattern as icing on the cake. That's really what separates the hatchery chickens from the standard bred birds. If you look at chickens from hatcheries (and many breeders), they all have a similar unspecific shape. When you go to a show and see chickens bred to their standard, you see chickens with proper type- as well as beautiful feathers. APA Standard bred chickens are in need of good breeders, btw.
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Lots of people are mixing breeds and making fancy colors but few are trying to preserve the historically significant breeds of poultry.

One more thing, regarding the color calculator. Chickens don't always reproduce as expected. In addition to what you see, their phenotype, is a whole lot of genes (their genotype) that you can't see. Those unseen genes pop up and create all kinds of surprises. The more you cross lines and add new birds, the more genetic surprises you create. That's why most standard bred chicken breeders linebreed- for predictability. That's why I am doing pedigree breeding. I am identifying the parents of every chick that I'm raising and keeping records of all their traits. I'm culling the traits that are undesired and selecting for the traits that I want. I never use the color calculator because it can't really tell me the genotype of my birds.

I have bred dogs and am a breeder of purebred cattle, sheep and pigs, in addition to chickens. Chicken breeding to standard is by far the most challenging.
 
sorry.............................hope she makes it......

What fun....I did so like having rabbits.....

Yes especially for me, a non project person, LOL Now I need to start my hunt for the Cream Legbar hens. Off I go.................
Your incubator is almost ready for returning. I just need to wipe down the lid and repack it. I will bring you a couple days worth of CLB eggs when I bring the bator. Maybe you'll get a pullet out of them!
 
Breeding chickens is a LOT more complicated than looking at the color calculator and putting a few birds together.

Kathy, who recreated the Delaware, had to breed hundreds of chicks in order to get the silver sports that she needed in the first couple years. I think she ended up with 4 breedable pullets out of 300.
I bought F4s from her and they have nice type but still don't have standard coloring. Most of the fifth generation chicks that I'm producing still look like they have too much barring.

So, recreating a Delaware is a long process, you don't get Delawares from just crossing a BR x NH.


Many people who raise chickens don't realize that it's the type (shape) that makes a breed a breed, not the color. If you took a giraffe and somehow made it have zebra stripes, it would still be a giraffe.
smile.png
It would be a very poor example of a giraffe, too!
That's exactly what's happening with many breeds of chickens. Breeders are focusing on all the colors and producing poor type birds with fancy coloring. The feathers are pretty- but underneath is a shape that does not define the true breed.

Here are some photos from the APA Standard that I modified, trying to remove the color and show the shape. (The APA Standard is copyrighted and can't be reproduced. Hope this is ok.)
This is a Dorking and a Delaware. Look at the outline shape of the birds. They are nothing alike!

My point here is that, if you want to breed purebred ie standard bred chickens, you need to pay attention to type first, and color/pattern as icing on the cake. That's really what separates the hatchery chickens from the standard bred birds. If you look at chickens from hatcheries (and many breeders), they all have a similar unspecific shape. When you go to a show and see chickens bred to their standard, you see chickens with proper type- as well as beautiful feathers. APA Standard bred chickens are in need of good breeders, btw.
smile.png
Lots of people are mixing breeds and making fancy colors but few are trying to preserve the historically significant breeds of poultry.

One more thing, regarding the color calculator. Chickens don't always reproduce as expected. In addition to what you see, their phenotype, is a whole lot of genes (their genotype) that you can't see. Those unseen genes pop up and create all kinds of surprises. The more you cross lines and add new birds, the more genetic surprises you create. That's why most standard bred chicken breeders linebreed- for predictability. That's why I am doing pedigree breeding. I am identifying the parents of every chick that I'm raising and keeping records of all their traits. I'm culling the traits that are undesired and selecting for the traits that I want. I never use the color calculator because it can't really tell me the genotype of my birds.

I have bred dogs and am a breeder of purebred cattle, sheep and pigs, in addition to chickens. Chicken breeding to standard is by far the most challenging.
Very good information!

Bob Blosl said the same thing about the Reds. Too many focus on the color when the shape is more important.
 
We have a grand total of 11 babies in our mini "rabbitry".
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My other doe had six, but one didn't make it.
 
Breeding chickens is a LOT more complicated <snipped for lenght> Chicken breeding to standard is by far the most challenging.

Thanks for that. It was my suspicion but I could not find an article about it yet. I probably wasn't looking right. I know from the time I spent raising some pigeons that it is very difficult get what you want when breeding birds.

I was thinking a lot about this after I made my post and was also considering if I did cross some breeds like that what would I be hoping to get. (Besides the color)

This whole line of thinking seems to fill some deep seeded need in me though. I have wanted to get back into pigeons for years (Indian Fantails were what I was interested in) but the more Im learning about chickens the more I think I want to breed my own. (Not sure if I want to make the commitment to show quality yet but not out of the realm of possibility)

Moving to the country is sounding more appealing all the time.
 
Your incubator is almost ready for returning. I just need to wipe down the lid and repack it. I will bring you a couple days worth of CLB eggs when I bring the bator. Maybe you'll get a pullet out of them!

We there you go sewngrow, hopefully you do get some pullets for your project. I will be watching for little blue birds.
 
All this discussion about sex-linked chickens has my brain turning.

I have this gal - she's lovely. Nicer than the pictures depict - her muff is astounding. Nice green egg - pistachio colored.




Anyway. If I were to breed her to a blue Ameraucana - would the chicks be sex-linked? Girls blue and boys barred? Do I have that right? I have BBS Ameraucana chicks (8 wks) and I can just be sure and save a blue cockerel if this is the case. I just want to see it work. Chicken genetics are so fun and make a person feel a bit like the mad scientist. Bwhahaha
 

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