California - Northern

[caychris]

I've been reading your posts. You've got some good experiences with your breeds. You sound like you have much more space than the small cottage backyard we have. We once had 25 acres but in our current place are limited/zoned to only 5 hens! I guess we should be grateful since many surrounding communities aren't zoned at all!

I know nothing of P/Ps except for your nice reviews of them and another BYCer was losing hers and sending them for necropsies with weird medical reports returned on them.

I'm not a fan of Orps in a coop environment. These girls are rather active and bothersome as chicks from videos I've watched. I saw a gang of 6 Orp chicks running around the coop purposely disturbing 2 sleeping ducklings and then nipping and bothering a couple Leghorn chicks minding their own business scratching around the ground. Had a friend with an Orp that was rather dominant in a closed coop also. As a broody she was overly fierce. I'm accustomed to our gentle Silkie broodies (and even a gentle Leghorn broody once) so when I saw our friend's combative fierce Orp broody I couldn't figure out why she wasn't in a soup pot. She was slightly calmer after raising her brood but not really a cuddle bug. I guess the key here is that some breeds really don't do well in confinement and need lots of pen space or need free-range. I know breeders want to defend birds by saying you have to do selective breeding for good temperament but sometimes a breed is just what it is. How many years have Marans been bred here in the U.S. and they're still unpleasant in mixed flocks.

Wellies are not a huggie breed but they do seem less combative than Marans. We and our friends have had different varieties and obviously different lines of Marans and they appear outwardly calm but in mixed flocks can be nippy to downright obnoxious. Barnies are calm but I haven't come by too much feedback regarding their pet status - because of their large size I would hesitate having them in a mixed flock. Penes/Empies are like the Mediterraneans - terrific for production but human contact is not their thing.

I adore Leghorns for so many reasons and grew up with them. However it saddened me that these girls are way too assertive for my gentle backyard flock and I had to re-home them. I tried both a Buff Leg and a White Leg and surprisingly the Buff Leg was more aggressive than our White Leg! For blue eggs we went with the gentle-tempered Ameraucana rather than CLs. CLs have Leghorn breed history in them so I've stayed away from CLs because the Leg temperament might pop up in some successive generations. Same reason I stay away from BRs which I've had before - they've had game bird and possibly Malay crossed in their breed history and some other breeds to make them more dual-purpose whereas the Dominique which BRs originally came from have stayed basically untouched. I love all these birds for different reasons but they don't necessarily make one good mixed flock.

It boils down to a matter of fancy and what breeds are the goal to fit a purpose - ornamental, utility/production, pet, game bird, etc. and then don't put them together. For us we chose the gentle breeds temperament first, and egg production/color is less important. We get less eggs with gentle non-combative breeds but don't miss the drama queens or bullies in flock politics.

I chose Delawares First and hand raising chicks so they would be friendly. I got some buff orps second about a month later and kept them apart till the buff orps were about 18 weeks or so.
I also got a Pita Pinta from Debi at about 13 weeks and I had grown out a CLB girl roughly the same age (she lost her male cage mates about this time as they started in on the crowing)

Ive found that spending time with them in a feeding situation reinforces the friendliness.

This season I tried hatching some myself as well as Debie helping me hatch some shipped eggs. I started off with Cream Legbars and Some Pitas normally CLB are not very friendly but raised with the Pita's they calmed quite a bit and the girl is even willing to be handled often enough. (Boys will still be boys)

Next I happened on to a single Delaware egg from Neals breeding pen and it hatched and it needed buddies so I got the buff orps again from feed store. I had also had shipped Barred Holland eggs and only one of those hatched so I got a couple more Pitas from Debie The whole gang of 8 birds are so sweet they will give you tooth decay

About 2 weeks behind them were a group of Hybrids (RIRxWhite Leghorn) and Delaware eggs I was trying my first hand at hatching with. I ended up with only 3 chicks and Neal had lost a leghorn to a fox so I added 3 hatchery Leghorns to this mix after about 4 weeks I integrated all the babies and the normally flighty leghorns seemed to be be less so and the 2 hybrid birds were much more friendly than I expected. They would let the buffs beg for the attention but they would let me pet them and even pick them up without much fuss.

I want to try Welsummers in the future but Im pretty sure Ill raise them as chicks with some Pitas. Pitas are easy to handle friendly and calm.

I started a regiment of wet mash feedings after 4 weeks to get them used to me providing food and promote being handled. It has worked so far. The only group I did not do it with had no Pitas in the group and and were very skitish (the Delaware was the only semi friendly bird in the lot) The Hybrids and Partridge Cochins (we bought) were all skittish but they are only about 6 and a half weeks now. (They have gone over to Neals to live who will spoil them rotten for sure)

I have some Cream Legbars about 2 weeks old with some 3 week old Pita Pintas and they well on their way to being easy to handle. the Pitas flock to my hands usually whenever I go to the brooder. They like to be petted and paid attention to.
The CLB with them seem easier to handle than their nature would suggest.

I think most all chicks are skitter bugs till about 4 weeks when they start to take more time figuring out the world, but Pitas seem friendly from the get go.

 

[chrissyr]

Is poopy butt on chicks from too high or too low of heat? Can't remember

 

[PetRock]

That is the Kittle RIRs from Horstman?

They are completely different from what hatcheries sell.

Yes, offspring from the chicks that I got from you. They are beautiful birds!

 

[ronott1]

Is poopy butt on chicks from too high or too low of heat? Can't remember

It comes from any stress so both will do that.

Along with hard hatching and shipping stress for shipped chicks.

 

[Sylvester017]

I have had BC Marans for the last 3 years and have not found them to aggressive with any of the others. I have probably had about 10 at different times. They are not cuddly, but none of mine are because they are not pets. They are no more or less so than any of my others. They have a job to do. The one exception to that is "Stubby". She lost her lower leg and foot as a young pullet and has had much more handling because of that. She is a Blue Ameraucana.

It's nice to hear that there are some good experiences with Marans out there since every breed needs saving. In ours and our friend's case we found the Marans not too nice in confinement or a small yard. As I've said before they can be from nippy toward passers-by in the flock to downright full mean. Our 7-lb Cuckoo had plenty of space but she chose to single out the 2-lb Silkies to pull out their crests on the roost or come on full-attack til the Silkie screamed. As for Ameraucanas (not EE) we found them especially kind and nurturing to all their flockmates - they've been kooky spooky jittery personalities but never retaliate chest-bumping and flee rather than fight.

Stubby sounds like a sweetie - how does she get around without the foot and how do her flockmates treat her? Amers seem to be notorious for injuries - our friend's Amer got his head stuck and broke his neck when all he had to do was back out, another was so timid she would've been killed from head-pecking from the rest of the flock who drew blood (Marans) - Amers are spooky jumpy birds and often injure themselves - we watched our Amer get startled so badly she ran and skidded on rough paver stones that I was sure she had to have torn feet - she was ok but walked tenderly for the next couple hours. I've come to like Amer's non-combative temperaments and won't put them with anything but other known-gentles breeds.

 

[Sylvester017]

I chose Delawares First and hand raising chicks so they would be friendly. I got some buff orps second about a month later and kept them apart till the buff orps were about 18 weeks or so.
I also got a Pita Pinta from Debi at about 13 weeks and I had grown out a CLB girl roughly the same age (she lost her male cage mates about this time as they started in on the crowing)

Ive found that spending time with them in a feeding situation reinforces the friendliness.

This season I tried hatching some myself as well as Debie helping me hatch some shipped eggs. I started off with Cream Legbars and Some Pitas normally CLB are not very friendly but raised with the Pita's they calmed quite a bit and the girl is even willing to be handled often enough. (Boys will still be boys)

Next I happened on to a single Delaware egg from Neals breeding pen and it hatched and it needed buddies so I got the buff orps again from feed store. I had also had shipped Barred Holland eggs and only one of those hatched so I got a couple more Pitas from Debie The whole gang of 8 birds are so sweet they will give you tooth decay

About 2 weeks behind them were a group of Hybrids (RIRxWhite Leghorn) and Delaware eggs I was trying my first hand at hatching with. I ended up with only 3 chicks and Neal had lost a leghorn to a fox so I added 3 hatchery Leghorns to this mix after about 4 weeks I integrated all the babies and the normally flighty leghorns seemed to be be less so and the 2 hybrid birds were much more friendly than I expected. They would let the buffs beg for the attention but they would let me pet them and even pick them up without much fuss.

I want to try Welsummers in the future but Im pretty sure Ill raise them as chicks with some Pitas. Pitas are easy to handle friendly and calm.

I started a regiment of wet mash feedings after 4 weeks to get them used to me providing food and promote being handled. It has worked so far. The only group I did not do it with had no Pitas in the group and and were very skitish (the Delaware was the only semi friendly bird in the lot) The Hybrids and Partridge Cochins (we bought) were all skittish but they are only about 6 and a half weeks now. (They have gone over to Neals to live who will spoil them rotten for sure)

I have some Cream Legbars about 2 weeks old with some 3 week old Pita Pintas and they well on their way to being easy to handle. the Pitas flock to my hands usually whenever I go to the brooder. They like to be petted and paid attention to.
The CLB with them seem easier to handle than their nature would suggest.

I think most all chicks are skitter bugs till about 4 weeks when they start to take more time figuring out the world, but Pitas seem friendly from the get go.

Taking time to handle birds is a definite plus and while chicks and juveniles of the known skittish breeds will be calmer and friendlier toward their humans we found it was more on their own terms as they matured. We had a great tame White Leg for 3 years and counted our blessings but at that mature age she went bonkers on her flockmates after being a gentle alpha all those years. It's at maturity that the assertiveness displays in the combative breeds. Our Buff Leg at only one year was meaner than the White Leg by aggressively chasing and pulling out crests, beards, and muffs on the gentle breeds. Lesson learned for us that all the handling of the known aggressive/assertive dual-purpose and layer breeds including hybrids/sexlinks only goes so far and then one day we wake up to find our tame birds' true temperaments are displayed. They can't help it - they are what they are. Just like waking up one day to find an injured or dead Amer because they are such spooky jittery ultra-hyper birds that run into injurious objects or prefer to flee rather than defend themselves. I also agree that there are breeds from the "get-go" as chicks to adulthood who naturally are curious, outgoing, and friendly toward humans and flockmates and outside of the normal pecking order ranks their coexistence with humans and flockmates are perpetually peaceful.

 

[Happy Chooks]

Quote:

Bryan!

I've had mean Marans in the past and got rid of them. I think it depends on the lines. I have 2 from Wynette's lines, and they are both very nice pullets that lay very nice eggs. (one just went broody though)

Welsummers are friendly in that they come to you for treats, but they are generally not lap chickens. They like their space. But with that said, keep on trying to tame her!

You think the pullets scream, you should hear the wellie cockerels.

Barnevelders don't lay really dark eggs, but their temperament is extremely mellow that they could easily be lap chickens. Mine aren't because I have too many chickens, and I have kids, so I'm pretty busy.

 

[Audio51]

Quote: I have read that the smaller they are the harder they are to hatch. I just wish I had a local breeder that I could get eggs from that didn't require shipping.

My Marans are apparently from similar lines and have good personalities.


Quote:

Quote: Stubby actually gets around very well. The necrosis occurred about half way down the lower part of the leg so she has a fair amount of stump left. She shifts her weight to that side and has built up a nice callous on the end of it. It has flattened out and now resembles a foot with no toes. These pictures are from when the foot had just dropped off about a week before. This happened in June of last year so almost exactly a year ago.

View of the stump comared to the length of the intact leg.


You can see how young she was when it happened.


Closer view of the stump shortly after the foot fell off.

Quote:

Bryan!

I've had mean Marans in the past and got rid of them. I think it depends on the lines. I have 2 from Wynette's lines, and they are both very nice pullets that lay very nice eggs. (one just went broody though)

Welsummers are friendly in that they come to you for treats, but they are generally not lap chickens. They like their space. But with that said, keep on trying to tame her!

You think the pullets scream, you should hear the wellie cockerels.

Barnevelders don't lay really dark eggs, but their temperament is extremely mellow that they could easily be lap chickens. Mine aren't because I have too many chickens, and I have kids, so I'm pretty busy.
I agree! I think there are many factors involved in temperament of individuals. The breed as a whole may tend to have a certain temperament, but certain lines may be quite different and the ones with favorable traits should be bred to perpetuate that. I also believe that there are certain external factors that greatly affect personalities, such as flock dynamics, handling as young birds, etc.

 

[Audio51]

I received the final report on the Bresse youngster I sent in for necropsy and didn't really get much info to go on. This is one of 6 that hatched under a broody from shipped eggs. All were doing well for the first 3 weeks, then they started to fade one at a time. I have lost 5 of them....all of which I believe were likely pullets. I have one left that is doing very well and it appears to be a cockerel. This is what the report showed:

G r o s s O b s e r v a t i o n s
A female juvenile chicken is submitted for necropsy in good body condition with sparse amounts of reserve fat and in good
postmortem preservation. No significant gross findings are observed.

06/17/2015:
No specific gross findings were observed that would indicate the cause of death. Ancillary tests including histopathologic
examination are pending


06/18/2015:
The histopathologic lesions observed in the skeletal muscle adjacent to the sciatic nerve is due to an unknown cause and is of
unknown significance. A mineral deficiency can cause the skeletal muscle necrosis, but would likely affect the flock as a whole
and not one chick at a time as described in the history. Unfortunately the sample needed to assess the mineral status of this
chick is no longer available. The significance of the epicarditis is unknown. All diagnostic tests have been completed.

BACTERIAL AEROBIC CULTURE
Results
Taylor Taylor Lung Swab Mixed Coliforms Mod# Proteus swarming - No further work up.

Taylor Taylor Liver Swab Mixed flora Rare#

Salmonella Culture Results
Feces No salmonella detected

Avian Influenza matrix gene qRT-PCR Results

Taylor Taylor Oropharyngeal Swab Not Detected

H i s t o l o g y
Skeletal nerve: There are multifocal areas of skeletal muscle necrosis scattered throughout the muscle adjacent to the sciatic nerves.
Heart: The epicardium is multifocally infiltrated by few heterophils.
Colon: There is a single adult nematode within the lumen (suspect Hetarakis gallinarum).
Brain, peripheral nerve, lung, bursa, spleen, kidney, proventriculus, ventriculus, small intestine, pancreas: No significant histopathologic lesions observed.
.

 

[HighStreetCoop]

It boils down to a matter of fancy and what breeds are the goal to fit a purpose - ornamental, utility/production, pet, game bird, etc. and then don't put them together. For us we chose the gentle breeds temperament first, and egg production/color is less important. We get less eggs with gentle non-combative breeds but don't miss the drama queens or bullies in flock politics.

Absolutely. I personally adore my Orps. Big, calm birds, exactly what I wanted. Three are broody right now, and they're pretty chill about it. They ruffle up and grouse when I take them out of the nest, but they don't peck me or fight me at all.