I have a question about the crates for sows. My DH a LONG time ago worked in an Iowa hog confinement. He told me that they put the sows in the crates to protect the babies as they're born. Otherwise the sow tended to lay on the piglets and kill them. It wasn't used on a permament basis. Wouldn't here be a high loss if they quite using them? My in-laws raised backyard pigs and had to be there at every birth to protect the piglets,wouldn't this make it pretty labor intensive on a confinement?
California Proposition 2
- Thread starter Lazy J Farms Feed & Hay
- Start date
As I understand it, there are no commercial pig operations in California that would be affected by the legislation. The largest pork producer is Neiman Ranch, and they already have a higher standard for their farms.
It is only the egg producers who would need to make substantial changes by 2015.
I realize that in California that producers have done a good job of creating quality standards for clean, safe eggs, and that veterinarians are present. However, these veterinarians are there to protect the food supply, not necessarily the animals. There is no standard that I could find, either voluntary or compulsory, for how crowded the birds are allowed to be.
People say that the larger area per bird requires going cage-free, but that is not how I read it. It seems to me that the stacks of cages currently in use would still be allowed, just with fewer birds per cage.
It is only the egg producers who would need to make substantial changes by 2015.
I realize that in California that producers have done a good job of creating quality standards for clean, safe eggs, and that veterinarians are present. However, these veterinarians are there to protect the food supply, not necessarily the animals. There is no standard that I could find, either voluntary or compulsory, for how crowded the birds are allowed to be.
People say that the larger area per bird requires going cage-free, but that is not how I read it. It seems to me that the stacks of cages currently in use would still be allowed, just with fewer birds per cage.
- Thread starter
- #13
Quote:
Poltoon:
If this passes it WILL make cage housing of hens illegal! The definition of of being able to fully extend wingd explicitly states the the hen must be able fully extend its wings (all 28 inches) without touching any equipment or another bird.
Jim
Poltoon:
If this passes it WILL make cage housing of hens illegal! The definition of of being able to fully extend wingd explicitly states the the hen must be able fully extend its wings (all 28 inches) without touching any equipment or another bird.
Jim
How would that ban cages? It mandates a minimum size. Also, they must have enough room when cage free to extend their wings and turn around without obstruction from another bird. This would take the minimum industry standards from 1'x1' to 2'x2' (or there abouts). It stands to reason that having more space would cut down on some aggression issues and perhaps even aid in keeping disease from running rampant due to severe overcrowding (and monoculture).
Many of us on BYC have decided to raise our own chickens in part as a rebellion to battery cage practices. Some have even rescued former battery hens. There are some very strong feelings involved in this measure. I know that industry does not like to have mandates placed on them, they are in the business to make money. That's what businesses are supposed to do. However, one need only read "The Jungle" to see that one role all governments take is in regulating industry, this is not new. We all have laws to follow in our lives, some we agree with, some we don't. I fail to see this measure as doom and gloom for the selling of eggs, which has been done for hundreds of years, well before it was so heavily industrialized. Our modern industrialized farming practices have only been around for the past 50-60 years. Practices will need to change if it passes, but maybe that's okay.
As for critical thinking, that assumes one looks at a variety of points and facts, not strictly those of BigAg. We may not all come to the same conclusion.
Edited to add that I lived in Central CA for enough years to know people who had worked at Foster Farms (who spoke at length of their experiences), see the trucks carrying chickens, daily see the dairies with cows on piles of wet excrement, the "downer cows" next to the road, etc. These experiences all enter into my "critical thinking", and I truly hope to see this issue brought up nationally.
Many of us on BYC have decided to raise our own chickens in part as a rebellion to battery cage practices. Some have even rescued former battery hens. There are some very strong feelings involved in this measure. I know that industry does not like to have mandates placed on them, they are in the business to make money. That's what businesses are supposed to do. However, one need only read "The Jungle" to see that one role all governments take is in regulating industry, this is not new. We all have laws to follow in our lives, some we agree with, some we don't. I fail to see this measure as doom and gloom for the selling of eggs, which has been done for hundreds of years, well before it was so heavily industrialized. Our modern industrialized farming practices have only been around for the past 50-60 years. Practices will need to change if it passes, but maybe that's okay.
As for critical thinking, that assumes one looks at a variety of points and facts, not strictly those of BigAg. We may not all come to the same conclusion.
Edited to add that I lived in Central CA for enough years to know people who had worked at Foster Farms (who spoke at length of their experiences), see the trucks carrying chickens, daily see the dairies with cows on piles of wet excrement, the "downer cows" next to the road, etc. These experiences all enter into my "critical thinking", and I truly hope to see this issue brought up nationally.
Last edited:
Quote:
I agree. I hope that prop 2 passes.
I agree. I hope that prop 2 passes.
Hmmm....I'm the only one on this post from CA?? Guess I'm the only one who is voting today. It's just a personal choice for people and where you stand on ethical situations. The whole reason I have my own chickens is because of how we get store bought eggs and what's in them. I live in chicken producing Foster Farm central and I've seen them and how things are run and since buying organic and free-range became too expensive, I thought I should just raise my own. I think if more people were to see the process of where their food comes from there would be more vegetarians that's for sure (although I have no problem slaughtering my own food). CA only produces about 50% of our own eggs, the rest come from other states, mostly Iowa. Insulting people on their lack of "critical thinking" skills isn't the proper way to influence the way people vote...just state the facts so folks can make their own decisions.
It's an ethical thing for me....I don't eat veal, I don't go to zoo's or the circus. I think humans should show a bit more respect for the animal kingdom. And some dairy's are just down right disgusting.....cows wallowing in their own excrement, knee deep in watery, stinky sludge...just kind of makes my stomach turn.
I hope I don't get the boot for my post....I just thought since no one stopped the thread, an opposing view should be allowed.
And don't forget to VOTE!
It's an ethical thing for me....I don't eat veal, I don't go to zoo's or the circus. I think humans should show a bit more respect for the animal kingdom. And some dairy's are just down right disgusting.....cows wallowing in their own excrement, knee deep in watery, stinky sludge...just kind of makes my stomach turn.
I hope I don't get the boot for my post....I just thought since no one stopped the thread, an opposing view should be allowed.
And don't forget to VOTE!
Vote NO.
The organization pulled off the greatest false advertising con in the world when they named themselves the Humane Society. Everyone thinks that they are related to the local humane societies which actually try to take care of animals. These guys dont spend a penny to take care of animals. They dont care about the individual animals. Thats not their goal. They are intent upon legislating all animal agri-businesses out of business with the eventual goal of lawfully forcing everyone to stop using or eating any animal product at all. Yup, that includes fish, milk, meat, and eggs.
If you read far enough into their website you will find a link to a book that proposes killing all the chickens in the world (and never raising them again) as the way to eliminate the threat of avian flu. Of course, since pigs also are a source of flu........
The organization states on their website that if layers and broiler chickens are given a larger cage or taken out of cages then they will suffer leg injuries.
Wait! The organization is saying it would hurt them to be out of small cages???? YES! So, guess where they are going next??? It is their intention to totally ban all selective breeding of broilers and layers because these birds may suffer injuries (due to weak bones) once they are allowed out of their small cages. And of course, prop 2 will force them out of those small cages. Very Clever!
That means no more meat birds and no more production breeds.
Dont think they will stop here. They are just getting started.
Because of their big name con, they rake in millions of tax free dollars every year that they will use to force their anti animal agenda on all of us. They've brilliantly conned most of America with slick ads and a respectable name.
Who can fight them and win?
They will be coming to your states next!
The organization pulled off the greatest false advertising con in the world when they named themselves the Humane Society. Everyone thinks that they are related to the local humane societies which actually try to take care of animals. These guys dont spend a penny to take care of animals. They dont care about the individual animals. Thats not their goal. They are intent upon legislating all animal agri-businesses out of business with the eventual goal of lawfully forcing everyone to stop using or eating any animal product at all. Yup, that includes fish, milk, meat, and eggs.
If you read far enough into their website you will find a link to a book that proposes killing all the chickens in the world (and never raising them again) as the way to eliminate the threat of avian flu. Of course, since pigs also are a source of flu........
The organization states on their website that if layers and broiler chickens are given a larger cage or taken out of cages then they will suffer leg injuries.
Wait! The organization is saying it would hurt them to be out of small cages???? YES! So, guess where they are going next??? It is their intention to totally ban all selective breeding of broilers and layers because these birds may suffer injuries (due to weak bones) once they are allowed out of their small cages. And of course, prop 2 will force them out of those small cages. Very Clever!
That means no more meat birds and no more production breeds.
Dont think they will stop here. They are just getting started.
Because of their big name con, they rake in millions of tax free dollars every year that they will use to force their anti animal agenda on all of us. They've brilliantly conned most of America with slick ads and a respectable name.
Who can fight them and win?
They will be coming to your states next!
I voted NO. I do not wish to see every small farmer in the state out of business. What I do want is for the abusive farms to GET CAUGHT. This prop was aimed at them because there are not enough inspectors to go around. Don't punish the whole because of a few rotten apples.
The full text of the law is less than a page long, and is available here:
http://www.voterguide.sos.ca.gov/text-proposed-laws/text-of-proposed-laws.pdf#prop3 (pdf)
http://www.voterguide.sos.ca.gov/text-proposed-laws/text-of-proposed-laws.pdf#prop3 (pdf)
25990. PROHIBITIONS. In addition to other applicable provisions of law, a
person shall not tether or confine any covered animal, on a farm, for all or the
majority of any day, in a manner that prevents such animal from:
(a) Lying down, standing up, and fully extending his or her limbs; and
(b) Turning around freely.
25991. DEFINITIONS. For the purposes of this chapter, the following terms
have the following meanings:
(a) Calf raised for veal means any calf of the bovine species kept for the
purpose of producing the food product described as veal.
(b) Covered animal means any pig during pregnancy, calf raised for
veal, or egg-laying hen who is kept on a farm.
(c) Egg-laying hen means any female domesticated chicken, turkey, duck,
goose, or guinea fowl kept for the purpose of egg production.
(d) Enclosure means any cage, crate, or other structure (including what
is commonly described as a gestation crate for pigs; a veal crate for
calves; or a battery cage for egg-laying hens) used to confine a covered
animal.
(e) Farm means the land, building, support facilities, and other equipment
that are wholly or partially used for the commercial production of animals or
animal products used for food or fiber; and does not include live animal
markets.
(f) Fully extending his or her limbs means fully extending all limbs
without touching the side of an enclosure, including, in the case of egg-laying
hens, fully spreading both wings without touching the side of an enclosure or
other egg-laying hens.
(g) Person means any individual, firm, partnership, joint venture,
association, limited liability company, corporation, estate, trust, receiver, or
syndicate.
(h) Pig during pregnancy means any pregnant pig of the porcine species
kept for the primary purpose of breeding.
(i) Turning around freely means turning in a complete circle without any
impediment, including a tether, and without touching the side of an
enclosure.
25992. EXCEPTIONS. This chapter shall not apply:
(a) During scientific or agricultural research.
(b) During examination, testing, individual treatment or operation for
veterinary purposes.
(c) During transportation.
(d) During rodeo exhibitions, state or county fair exhibitions, 4-H programs,
and similar exhibitions.
(e) During the slaughter of a covered animal in accordance with the
provisions of Chapter 6 (commencing with Section 19501) of Part 3 of Division
9 of the Food and Agricultural Code, relating to humane methods of slaughter,
and other applicable law and regulations.
(f) To a pig during the seven-day period prior to the pigs expected date of
giving birth.
25993. ENFORCEMENT. Any person who violates any of the provisions of this
chapter is guilty of a misdemeanor, and upon conviction thereof shall be
punished by a fine not to exceed one thousand dollars ($1,000) or by
imprisonment in the county jail for a period not to exceed 180 days or by both
such fine and imprisonment.
25994. CONSTRUCTION OF CHAPTER.
The provisions of this chapter are in addition to, and not in lieu of, any other
laws protecting animal welfare, including the California Penal Code. This
chapter shall not be construed to limit any state law or regulations protecting
the welfare of animals, nor shall anything in this chapter prevent a local
governing body from adopting and enforcing its own animal welfare laws and
regulations.
SECTION 4. SEVERABILITY
If any provision of this act, or the application thereof to any person or
circumstances, is held invalid or unconstitutional, that invalidity or
unconstitutionality shall not affect other provisions or applications of this act
that can be given effect without the invalid or unconstitutional provision or
application, and to this end the provisions of this act are severable.
SECTION 5. EFFECTIVE DATES
The provisions of Sections 25990, 25991, 25992, 25993, and 25994 shall
become operative on January 1, 2015.
So, cages are still allowed, and putting them in a coop at night is still allowed, and smaller cages for travel or show or other special occasions are still OK, unless I'm reading this wrong.
person shall not tether or confine any covered animal, on a farm, for all or the
majority of any day, in a manner that prevents such animal from:
(a) Lying down, standing up, and fully extending his or her limbs; and
(b) Turning around freely.
25991. DEFINITIONS. For the purposes of this chapter, the following terms
have the following meanings:
(a) Calf raised for veal means any calf of the bovine species kept for the
purpose of producing the food product described as veal.
(b) Covered animal means any pig during pregnancy, calf raised for
veal, or egg-laying hen who is kept on a farm.
(c) Egg-laying hen means any female domesticated chicken, turkey, duck,
goose, or guinea fowl kept for the purpose of egg production.
(d) Enclosure means any cage, crate, or other structure (including what
is commonly described as a gestation crate for pigs; a veal crate for
calves; or a battery cage for egg-laying hens) used to confine a covered
animal.
(e) Farm means the land, building, support facilities, and other equipment
that are wholly or partially used for the commercial production of animals or
animal products used for food or fiber; and does not include live animal
markets.
(f) Fully extending his or her limbs means fully extending all limbs
without touching the side of an enclosure, including, in the case of egg-laying
hens, fully spreading both wings without touching the side of an enclosure or
other egg-laying hens.
(g) Person means any individual, firm, partnership, joint venture,
association, limited liability company, corporation, estate, trust, receiver, or
syndicate.
(h) Pig during pregnancy means any pregnant pig of the porcine species
kept for the primary purpose of breeding.
(i) Turning around freely means turning in a complete circle without any
impediment, including a tether, and without touching the side of an
enclosure.
25992. EXCEPTIONS. This chapter shall not apply:
(a) During scientific or agricultural research.
(b) During examination, testing, individual treatment or operation for
veterinary purposes.
(c) During transportation.
(d) During rodeo exhibitions, state or county fair exhibitions, 4-H programs,
and similar exhibitions.
(e) During the slaughter of a covered animal in accordance with the
provisions of Chapter 6 (commencing with Section 19501) of Part 3 of Division
9 of the Food and Agricultural Code, relating to humane methods of slaughter,
and other applicable law and regulations.
(f) To a pig during the seven-day period prior to the pigs expected date of
giving birth.
25993. ENFORCEMENT. Any person who violates any of the provisions of this
chapter is guilty of a misdemeanor, and upon conviction thereof shall be
punished by a fine not to exceed one thousand dollars ($1,000) or by
imprisonment in the county jail for a period not to exceed 180 days or by both
such fine and imprisonment.
25994. CONSTRUCTION OF CHAPTER.
The provisions of this chapter are in addition to, and not in lieu of, any other
laws protecting animal welfare, including the California Penal Code. This
chapter shall not be construed to limit any state law or regulations protecting
the welfare of animals, nor shall anything in this chapter prevent a local
governing body from adopting and enforcing its own animal welfare laws and
regulations.
SECTION 4. SEVERABILITY
If any provision of this act, or the application thereof to any person or
circumstances, is held invalid or unconstitutional, that invalidity or
unconstitutionality shall not affect other provisions or applications of this act
that can be given effect without the invalid or unconstitutional provision or
application, and to this end the provisions of this act are severable.
SECTION 5. EFFECTIVE DATES
The provisions of Sections 25990, 25991, 25992, 25993, and 25994 shall
become operative on January 1, 2015.
So, cages are still allowed, and putting them in a coop at night is still allowed, and smaller cages for travel or show or other special occasions are still OK, unless I'm reading this wrong.
I am not in California, but I just wanted to say NO government of any kind, state or federal, or any organization should be making any laws regarding our housing of any animals.
You may think they are only talking about battery caged hens used for production eggs, but I assure you, they will start there and then they will be coming for your personal backyard flocks!
You may think they are only talking about battery caged hens used for production eggs, but I assure you, they will start there and then they will be coming for your personal backyard flocks!
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