Can an old foot injury make your chicken more prone to frost bite? (Photos)

[shell3]

topical antibiotic is perfect thou cos its direct. i thought the same about the bandage staying on! thats gonna be a tuff one! but worth rinsing and redressing as much as poss with the ointment.
it would be sucb a shame to loose that toe but your doing everthing you can , thats all we can ask of ourselves. if theres any chance to save it , then we know you will.
he's a lucky boy to have you x
you must be so frustrated! stay positive xx

 

[Bogtown Chick]

The bandage stayed on all day today! It consists of non stick dressing pad and Vet Wrap which is fabulous. I went down and it was pretty dingy already by noon. He and many of his hens had taken advantage of the warmer weather and did up their dust baths. I opened the run door and let them chook around the snow which is sort of wettish with the 30 degrees F today, so the integrity of the bandage is compromised but I figured I would just leave it be until the evening right before roosting time. That way he'll have a nice fresh new one that will be in place for quite a few hours during roosting hours.

During the day though they came out of the run quite a bit and up the hill to the house to look for their grains. He brought all the crew up twice today. Rambunctious for his goodies that's for sure. He'd pick his foot up once in a while and squeeze and curl the toes. All i could think was, "I know it hurts, but I like it when you squeeze the blood flow down into the toe! -- Good boy."

During the dressing change tonight...the toe looked much the same. appears to have remained clean. Soap and water,anyways, iodine to disinfect. Antibiotic ointment, telfa pad, and Vet wrap. I'm here for the long haul my Big boy....

Thank you thank you Shell for your warm words of encouragement. I need to step back and look at the big picture and know it's a bum toe, sure, but today he had a really good day: free ranging, crowing, eating, dancing, mating. He was his usual self except for a bothersome toe.

That's always the trick when your too involved sometimes. Gotta just step back and evaluate the big picture--the whole picture. Good night to you over there across the Big Pond.

 

[cowcreekgeek]

I've read through your pages, and commend your efforts. You're sorta up against the proverbial wall when it comes to temperature extremes, and that question of heating givin' rise to greater condensation, which compounds the potential problems. Here's a few thoughts that might help ...

• I'd add some super low boards, for when any bird can't get themselves up to the normal roosts ... not ideal, but it may be better than bein' on the ground which, if one foot's injured? Leaves 'em standin' on the other w/o switchin' back/forth.
• When dealing w/ frostbite? Never use warm water right away, and never rub on the damaged area -- it's a burn, of sorts, and any heat/friction damages further the tissues. Start w/ very cold water, and slowly add tepid water as the temperature of their extremities begins to rise.
• Tap water burns, when it hits the wound, whereas an epsom salt bath not only feels more comfortable, but provides an excellent way to remove infection and soften away any dead/dying tissue ... that's the best defense against infection.
• Vet-wrap rocks, and I'm a huge fan of the original Neosporin, or any off-brand product of the same recipe -- never use the ones w/ any form of pain reliever in it, as these ingredients are highly toxic to birds.
• As for pain? Remember they're made very differently, and actually produce analgesia during times of stress/injury. You can give your poultry plain old-fashioned aspirin in their drinking water, at the rate of five (5 grain) per gallon. Notice: MSU's math is wrong, as this equals 1,620 or 1,625 mg/Gal., depending upon who's measure of grains are used (which means one baby aspirin in not less than 6.4 ounces of water is the correct ratio ~'-)

You're absolutely right, in that injuries often result in damages that can limit circulation, and most likely the sensation he'd normally have felt w/in his toes ... he's most probably less likely to notice that it's beginning to freeze, not that chickens seem too keenly aware of such dangers.

 

[shell3]

i like the idea of using the epsoms salts in the water, i read that online last night myself.
sounds like the bsndage is staying on much better than we thought it would, thats gonna be a big plus, keep all the muck out of the wounx is half the battle! its good his clenching it too. keeping the infection out is the most you can do for now, i guess repairing the circulation is down to roger. i will ask the vet fri if he can suggest anything that might help thou,you never know.
i know what your saying about the bigger picture, your right of course but dont give up hope, your doing everything right and his still got feeling and movement in it so the fights not over yet! we must always be positive and hopeful x

 

[Cknldy]

Could Roger have stubbed his toe? If he stubbed his toe pretty hard pushing the nail up into the toe or possibly breaking the toe at the joint would it have that affect? I'm cringing just thinking about it! The massaging does seem to help so perhaps not frostbite if Roger didn't seem to be in pain during his 'therapy' just a thought but I've never seen a broken chicken toe and you mentioned a bruised looking spot.

 

[Bogtown Chick]

Thank you So much CowCreekGeek for your input. I've had previous but minimal experience with frostbite, and forgot about the slow warm up of the toe.

I'm thinking that my foot massages have been mainly along the main foot pad (Thankfully) and a bit to the toe as this isn't as easy to massage as the foot pad per se. I hope I didn't damage it further.

I like the idea of an epsom salt soak for sure and will begin those right away tonight after work. I have Melalueca's antibiotic ointment which I believe is a Triple Antibiotic: Bacitracin, Neomycin, Polymix.
I've got a spot to build a lower roost within the coop. Whether he uses it though....? They love their higher ones--and no doubt a possible contributor of my now said problem. Picking up some baby aspirin today for him. Maybe I'm over thinking this and need to work out the logistics on my own. but he drinks with the hens in the coop out of one waterer. How much of the water/ ASA solution should I get down him. A few ml? I might have to syringe feed him this because you can bring a chicken to water but you can't always make him drink and plus of course I don't want it in his usual waterer with the hens accessing that.

Cknldy: I think now that you said that it is possible he did do something more recent with that toe (maybe a week ago Sunday?), given the bruisy look of that first knuckle. I just don't know though...and I've been blaming my stepping on his foot last summer for this comprimise in circulation. Maybe it is more recent and I get let myself off the hook for this one...although I did build the roosts. ugh. LOL.

He is getting a bit more feisty with each time I bring him to the house. He's not squatting as submissively while I tend to him. Soaks might start to be a challenge. I hope he learns it's for his own good and that he gets a reward of a treat and healed toe if he stays put!

Shell you're the best. Your humor, outside perspective and reassurances have been wonderful and a delight.

Thank you all for your Warm support! I'll get pictures of Roger's toe this evening if it looks changed in any way.

 

[Bogtown Chick]

CowCreekGeek: OR about the aspirin, are you saying it's safe to put in the water for all to drink if Roger is goint to drink out of that same waterer? Thanks ~bogtown

 

[shell3]

as have yours xx

 

[cowcreekgeek]

CowCreekGeek: OR about the aspirin, are you saying it's safe to put in the water for all to drink if Roger is goint to drink out of that same waterer? Thanks ~bogtown

You can give the aspirin to all, or isolate him ... the ratio provides the proper milligram per day dosage, based on the normal consumption rates of each individual chicken. But, in all truth? The aspirin is mostly for your benefit, so you can feel better about any pain you fear Roger's enduring ... in reality? He's probably not givin' it a second thought.

You'll have to get over any worries about causing pain, if things take a turn for the worse ... any tissue that's necrotic will have to go, whether by scrubbin' it off, or by trimmin' it away. And, it sounds like such a *horrible* thing to do, but it really isn't.

But, hopefully, he'll continue to improve, w/ your continued care ~'-)

 

[Bogtown Chick]

Thank you CowCreekGeek: I'm thinking aspirin-- it is mostly for my benefit too. Ha. One thing I like about the aspirin idea as well is it is a blood thinner in humans, and I'm sure there's the same potential for chickens. This may ease some blood flow into the affected area and make it more efficient, healing the area....? Not sure and thinking out loud, again.

He seems determined yet in his normal activities, eating and courting, being alert while his hens eat and forage. and for that I'm so glad. He gets up on the roost great yet. The only thing I see him do is that flexing of the foot when in Flamingo pose and I know that it could be the toe or the nuissance of the bandage now itself making him do that.

I won't have any problem loosening or removing dead tissue if I see it: tissue that is seperated from nerves and blood flow. His toe was much the same last night. Ulceration not any bigger...so that was good to see. I didn't see any lessening of whiteness but perhaps it was slightly less swollen. Not sure. Very very subtle observation if it's even correct. He tolerated his cool epsom soak in the sink well last night. He jumped out once and then enjoyed some cottage cheese. We have 27 degrees today throughout most of the day and then it will dip down again tonight and Thursday will be nasty, again.

Thank you VERY MUCH for your objective and sensible approach to this. I SO appreciate it!