Can anyone recommend a feed for a hen with crop / digestive issues?

[TwoCrows]

Ahhh... Poor Butchie. She doesn't seem to be able to get much food down. Yesterday by the afternoon her crop was full of fluid and food, even with the bra. When I tried to massage her, it was coming up instead of going down, so I made her vomit as completely as I could. I don't like doing it to her, and I'm literally like "1 and 2 and break!" But I got her emptied of everything -- I could even see the egg she had for breakfast six hours earlier. She felt tons better after that, but I know this not a sustainable thing...

One good thing-- I flushed her with Epsom salts after she recovered from her vomit and she's pooping some really stinky cecal stuff that smells worse than broody poo. So at least some stuff that's been in there awhile is getting out.

The thing she ate that set this off was the "guts" and peelings of a big raw pumpkin squash the chicks got into in the compost. The worst thing, probably. Sugary, starchy, fibery...oy.

This yeast is coming from somewhere further down in her system, I'm convinced. Her whole problem started on the back end -- vent gleet and runny poo but no sour crop like this until now.

The right side of her abdomen between her legs feels hard, like there's a blockage. I know that's where the liver and gizzard are, but they don't feel right. She doesn't have a gooshy belly, but it's definitely bigger than it should be. All of my other chickens feel healthy, firm but soft in that area with no bulges.

So it's probably tumors or organ failure, I guess. So I know all this guessing is unproductive, but....sigh. Where I live, if I gave a vet here a chicken, he'd think I was using it to pay for him fixing my horse or cow. Chickens are a dime a dozen here and my neighbors think I'm a crazy gringa for keeping them longer than a year.

She hasn't laid an egg in seven months when the vent gleet started. I don't think she's laying internally -- her vent is always a round little "o" shape. The last eggs she laid looked sort of flat and were very white with weak shells. That was when I started trying to help her with Nystatin, which did zilch.

Anyway, I'm just venting I suppose. I'm going to flush her with warm blackstrap molasses today I think. Just maybe she got impacted further down in the gizzard by the squash fibers and if it comes out I can clear her system and continue to try to kill off the yeast.

If not, I'm planning her end of life. When I first got chickens almost four years ago, they were sick with bronchitis or pneumonia. I saved three out of five, but I helplessly watched two of them die of cyanosis and never again will I let an animal suffer like that. I'm going to give Butchie some more time and care, but if she starts really suffering, I'll do what I think is right.

Thank you for listening...

Sounds like something is definitely going on in her lower intestines or lower organs. Swelling from internal parts will definitely slow down the exit of waste and cause all the troubles she is having. It is so hard to diagnose these internal issues and of course watching them suffer is tough on our hearts. I think you are doing a wonderful job caring for her, and I am sure she knows this too.

 

[TropicalChickies]

Thank you for understanding. You and @Wyorp Rock have been so kind and helpful.

Sounds like something is definitely going on in her lower intestines or lower organs. Swelling from internal parts will definitely slow down the exit of waste and cause all the troubles she is having. It is so hard to diagnose these internal issues and of course watching them suffer is tough on our hearts. I think you are doing a wonderful job caring for her, and I am sure she knows this too.

 

[TropicalChickies]

Thank you for understanding. You and @Wyorp Rock have been so kind and helpful.

This might be a silly question, excuse me, but ---

Is it possible to feel worms moving around a chickens body from outside?

I flushed Butchie with warm molasses in water. She's feeling pretty perky. I've been massaging her abdomen. The hard bulge on the right side is a bit softer and smaller, and I distinctly feel something moving inside. It could be bile secretions, or gizzard contractions, or maybe I'm moving some tumor mass around, who knows, but it is definitely moving. Even if I just put the balls of my fingers on the bulge and gently press, something moves. It also makes her expel gas from her beak. After these abdominal massages, she poops. So I'm a little encouraged.

Is it possible it could be worms moving? I dewormed everyone about two weeks ago with albendazole. I have Ivermectin pour on in the animal first aid kit too. I don't want to give her anything to tax her system unnecessarily, so if it can't be worms and I'm just helping her gizzard or intestines, great. But something is definitely moving around in there.

 

[TwoCrows]

This might be a silly question, excuse me, but ---

Is it possible to feel worms moving around a chickens body from outside?

I flushed Butchie with warm molasses in water. She's feeling pretty perky. I've been massaging her abdomen. The hard bulge on the right side is a bit softer and smaller, and I distinctly feel something moving inside. It could be bile secretions, or gizzard contractions, or maybe I'm moving some tumor mass around, who knows, but it is definitely moving. Even if I just put the balls of my fingers on the bulge and gently press, something moves. It also makes her expel gas from her beak. After these abdominal massages, she poops. So I'm a little encouraged.

Is it possible it could be worms moving? I dewormed everyone about two weeks ago with albendazole. I have Ivermectin pour on in the animal first aid kit too. I don't want to give her anything to tax her system unnecessarily, so if it can't be worms and I'm just helping her gizzard or intestines, great. But something is definitely moving around in there.

I guess anything is possible, however having wormed her recently I would think they would be dead. Ivermectin Pour On is more for bugs on the skin, not internal parasites. Yeast does produce a ton of gas, so this movement could be gas moving. I have used Simethicone 125mg on birds with yeast gas in the past. It does de-gas the intestines and makes them feel better. It's not a cure being temporary but you might try one pill on her. It comes as a liquid pill, just squeeze it out onto something she will eat. Something to try.

 

[Wyorp Rock]

Wonderful advice from @TwoCrows as always!

Butchie hang in there, I'm rooting for you

 

[TropicalChickies]

Ok thanks. That was my thinking too -- gas, or the gizzard working, or both. The movement feels quite strong. At one point when I massaged the area, a long whistling hiccup sound came out. My other hen Cleo -- who had a brief sour crop after eating a bunch of fermented bananas from a fallen tree -- made a similar sound. (Cleo is fundamentally healthy and her sour crop cleared up completely and never came back.)

Butchie had a very good day overall yesterday after her flush. Pooped a lot, it's runny and muddy, but at least it's coming out, with at least two stinky cecal poops. She had a lot of energy and took a dust bath and preened herself.

She was stretching her neck and shaking her head quite a bit throughout the afternoon yesterday, however. But she is breathing normally. I guess she's trying to get her crop moving by herself...?

I only fed her scrambled egg and a teeny tiny bit of chopped soft cooked liver. And some coconut oil sprinkled with ginger.

Her crop is clear this morning and her abdomen softer as well. I'm going to assume that the chick feed is aggravating her condition. So far, every day I've only fed her egg, she wakes up with an empty crop. When I give her some feed, she blows up. If she continues to have good days yesterday, I'm going to keep her on a super low carb diet for at least a few weeks to try to starve the yeast.

Besides probiotics, should I supplement any vitamins if I'm not giving her chick feed?

It's really interesting to me that this is pretty much what I had to do for myself when I learned I had been sick for three years because I developed Celiacs disease. I had an itchy fungal infection on my skin and horrible gas, constipation, diarrhea -- just like Butchie! I took a lot of simethicone myself back then, I will get some for Butchie. I had to cut carbs and sugar almost completely and eat a lot of eggs, sardines, and red meat because I was so iron and B vitamin depleted and repair the intestinal lining. Not to project the whole situation, she is a chicken, not a human, but gut flora is gut flora.

Here's some pics of her from yesterday, enjoying the sunshine

I guess anything is possible, however having wormed her recently I would think they would be dead. Ivermectin Pour On is more for bugs on the skin, not internal parasites. Yeast does produce a ton of gas, so this movement could be gas moving. I have used Simethicone 125mg on birds with yeast gas in the past. It does de-gas the intestines and makes them feel better. It's not a cure being temporary but you might try one pill on her. It comes as a liquid pill, just squeeze it out onto something she will eat. Something to try.

 

[TropicalChickies]

She had a good day yesterday. Was nice to see her with energy and able to get her food down.

Wonderful advice from @TwoCrows as always!

Butchie hang in there, I'm rooting for you

 

[TwoCrows]

Ok thanks. That was my thinking too -- gas, or the gizzard working, or both. The movement feels quite strong. At one point when I massaged the area, a long whistling hiccup sound came out. My other hen Cleo -- who had a brief sour crop after eating a bunch of fermented bananas from a fallen tree -- made a similar sound. (Cleo is fundamentally healthy and her sour crop cleared up completely and never came back.)

Butchie had a very good day overall yesterday after her flush. Pooped a lot, it's runny and muddy, but at least it's coming out, with at least two stinky cecal poops. She had a lot of energy and took a dust bath and preened herself.

She was stretching her neck and shaking her head quite a bit throughout the afternoon yesterday, however. But she is breathing normally. I guess she's trying to get her crop moving by herself...?

I only fed her scrambled egg and a teeny tiny bit of chopped soft cooked liver. And some coconut oil sprinkled with ginger.

Her crop is clear this morning and her abdomen softer as well. I'm going to assume that the chick feed is aggravating her condition. So far, every day I've only fed her egg, she wakes up with an empty crop. When I give her some feed, she blows up. If she continues to have good days yesterday, I'm going to keep her on a super low carb diet for at least a few weeks to try to starve the yeast.

Besides probiotics, should I supplement any vitamins if I'm not giving her chick feed?

It's really interesting to me that this is pretty much what I had to do for myself when I learned I had been sick for three years because I developed Celiacs disease. I had an itchy fungal infection on my skin and horrible gas, constipation, diarrhea -- just like Butchie! I took a lot of simethicone myself back then, I will get some for Butchie. I had to cut carbs and sugar almost completely and eat a lot of eggs, sardines, and red meat because I was so iron and B vitamin depleted and repair the intestinal lining. Not to project the whole situation, she is a chicken, not a human, but gut flora is gut flora.

Here's some pics of her from yesterday, enjoying the sunshine

View attachment 3446699View attachment 3446700

Aww....she is such a lovely girl! I am so sorry you yourself were/are suffering with Celiacs disease, that has to be tough. I think you need to get Butchie on a similar diet, no carbs, lots of protein foods. Vitamins can't hurt, although eggs have all the building blocks of life nutrient wise. But if you do have any vitamins you can add to her diet, it can't hurt. Probiotics too. She is definitely good hands with you.

 

[TropicalChickies]

Aww....she is such a lovely girl! I am so sorry you yourself were/are suffering with Celiacs disease, that has to be tough. I think you need to get Butchie on a similar diet, no carbs, lots of protein foods. Vitamins can't hurt, although eggs have all the building blocks of life nutrient wise. But if you do have any vitamins you can add to her diet, it can't hurt. Probiotics too. She is definitely good hands with you.

Thanks for the confirmation. That's my gut feeling, she needs protein. Also she's pushing out some big new feathers, so the protein will help there too.

 

[TwoCrows]

Thanks for the confirmation. That's my gut feeling, she needs protein. Also she's pushing out some big new feathers, so the protein will help there too.

She looks better, her crop isn't sticking out as much as it was. Keep up all you are doing!!