Can anyone recommend a feed for a hen with crop / digestive issues?

[TropicalChickies]

Hi everyone. My sweet 2.5 year old hen Butchie has been having vent gleet and crop issues on and off for the past seven months. She started off by getting very sick (pooping greenish water, not eating or moving) but has responded to care and improved little by little since then. I've been diligent about keeping her free of worms and parasites. I'm pretty certain she has a chronic yeast infection by her smell (cheesy) and the white plaque on the roof of her mouth. She also has flaky skin on her face, but cleaning it with iodine solution and dabbing with ketocozonal cream has helped that tremendously. I've tried micozonale and Clotrimazol, but she responded best to a careful dosing of acidified copper sulfate. After almost two months of near normal healthy chicken life, she had a bad sour crop episode five days ago. I did all the things that worked before-- fasted her for a day, flushed her with Epsom salts, and started her on ACS in her water, following with probiotics. She seems to be bouncing back and her crop has been clear the past two mornings.

My question is should I try to find another feed for her? She can eat boiled eggs no problem. A little well cooked rice doesn't set her off either. But when she eats chicken feed (I only give her 2TBSP and damp it), her crop gets big and mushy and feels full of liquid and/or gas. When I massage it, she occasionally burps and I get a whiff of yeasty smell.

I've referred to this great article often https://www.backyardchickens.com/ar...ntion-and-treatments-of-crop-disorders.67194/

And in it, @TwoCrows writes that switching feed can sometimes help chronic sour crop. The feed the hens eat is a pretty typical mash. The ingredients say wheat, barley, corn, oats, soy meal, sunflower meal, sunflower oil, vitamins and minerals.

Maybe she is gluten intolerant?
Seriously, though, every time I think it's over for this hen, she bounces back. When she's feeling good, she is happy and active, bossing the pullets around, sun bathing, and seems glad to be alive. So I'd like to help her feel better any way I can. As many of the BYC friends have pointed out, maybe she has an underlying issue. But maybe it's the feed...
Any recommendations for a sweet hen with a sensitive tummy (who also thinks she's a dog)?

Thank you!

 

[TwoCrows]

I am sorry your girl is suffering with this for so long.

First, make sure she doesn't eat any fruits or berries as these can aggravate yeast. No other treats like bread, pasta, rice, anything with too many carbs. All of these can kick episodes off. Don't let her eat too much foliage either, it slows digestion down.

I had a hen with chronic sour crop and I found that a feed change did help her out a lot. (She was on Layena and I switched to a Manna Pro feed). But she definitely had some other underlying issue as she died at the age of 3 1/2. I am still not sure what did her in either.

If you chose to find another feed, mix in the new feed very slowly over a couple of weeks time as new feeds can cause upset to crops. And find a feed free of peas/field peas. They slow digestion down to a crawl which is what you are trying to avoid.

You might do another round of the Copper Sulfate for 10 days, followed by probiotics. And I would keep her on probiotics for some time after.

Get her a crop bra, they do wonders in keeping the food moving quicker out of the crop.

I wish I had some miracle cure for thus, I struggled with my girl for years and it was quite heart breaking.

 

[TropicalChickies]

Here's Butchie saying, "Look at my nice crop!"

I took this yesterday at about 4pm, 3.5 hours after her experimental lunch of 2 TBLSP sardines and 1 TBLSP cooked sweet potato sprinkled with probiotics and a little squeeze of fresh lemon. We basically ate the same lunch, I just had a bigger helping . I remember back when I had a lot of intestinal gasses from gluten intolerance, eating food with lemon juice really helped me break it down. I don't want to over-acidify her system, but thought I would give it a try on her if that's ok.

I don't feed any of the chickens after 1pm. They get breakfast at 6 and lunch at 12:30 and they forage all day. They all go to bed by themselves promptly at 6pm. It's never cold here so they don't have to stay warm at night and I think it's healthier for them to eat earlier in the day.

Anyway, you can see that Butchie handled her lunch well. Her crop was empty again this morning (4th day in a row!) and her color is better and she was out and about early this morning very perky. The sweet potato helped firm up her poop a bit too I think. The whole back part of her belly and vent area has shrunk to near normal size and is a healthy pink color. She still has gasses inside -- when I press on her lower belly, little puffs of air come out of her beak, but she is WAY less bloated. She's even walking with her legs closer together. And she doesn't smell like high school wrestling team's locker anymore! You can tell she hated being stinky and she feels so much better about herself now.

I hope she doesn't get into trouble today, I had to make a trip into town and left my husband with strict instructions on her lunch and not to let her get into any fruit or flowers or tough vegetation.

We're very attached to Butchie because she was the first hatchling on our farm. She was a happy accident -- the broody hen who hatched her had hidden some eggs under the old coop and was sitting on them there. That was a rough time. I was a new chicken keeper, the chickens we had bought from a neighbor were mostly sick already, and the rooster was a sadistic rapist. All the hens backs were featherless and they were all running away from him, totally stressed out. I don't blame Cherie (the broody) for hiding her little clutch. Butchie was the only hatchling who made it so she's a tough little cookie. She started laying at six months and laid an egg almost every day until she got sick with this yeast at 2 yrs old about seven months ago. But if survives this and never lays again, that's fine. She's an adorable pet.

I'm so grateful to this group and all I've learned here so I know how to recognize signs of illness and take care of them better now. We rehomed the rooster (pretty sure he ended up in a soup, but he was a horrid brute). We have an amazing hen named Cleo who also survived those rough days -- she's almost 4 -- and we've learned all about taking bumblefoot kernels out from her poor foot. We also acquired a few vaccinated and healthy pullets -- now hens--from a better neighbor last year. And Cherie, the other survivor, loves to go broody and hatched two chicks, a pullet and a rooster, five months ago. So now we have a small mixed flock of 3 older hens, 3 younger ones, a pullet, and a young rooster, who is already showing himself to be a perfect gentleman. He does his mating dance and if the hen doesn't show interest, he goes on to the next one! I'm glad I stuck it out, they bring so much love and joy to life.

I'm thinking about writing my first BYC article, "Confessions of a New Chicken Keeper: How to prepare for the worst and learn from it!" What do you folks think?

 

[TropicalChickies]

Hi folks,

Just an update that Butchie is still with us, getting around, and enjoying little things in life each day. She officially turned three years old a few days ago.

She stays in our outdoor kitchen building with us most of the day, but goes outside to peck grass and dust bathe. She loves sprawling out in the sunshine with her wonky leg stretched out, it must feel good to her.

About two months ago, I was having problems getting feed that wasn't moldy or spoiled. I had to toss two sacks of it and was very frustrated. There's no "brands" or choices here, just one feed from one supplier. I'd been wanting to change over to a homemade formulation for some time so I did it. Now I feed the chickens a mix of wheat, corn, oats, quinoa, flaxseed, lightly fermented. I very carefully formulated it to have sufficient protein and minerals. And I supply sources of calcium for the laying hens. So far, everyone looks very robust, no signs of deficiencies, and there are several growing juveniles now too.

The big difference from the commercial feed I was buying is that I'm not adding soy. I'm using yellow split pea flour, mixed in with water right before I serve the mash, for protein. It's very nutrient dense and from what I've read, more easily absorbed.

I have a lot of problems with soy, the main one being that Ecuador doesn't produce any, so the soy is imported either from the US or Brazil, and I'm not too keen on how soy is farmed in either of those places. Especially Brazil where it's causing massive Amazon deforestation. I founded a rainforest regeneration project here in Ecuador so relying on Brazilian soy for my chickens doesn't really go with that.

My feelings aside, Butchie eats the mash every day, a carefully controlled portions. She absolutely could not tolerate the commercial feed. Even one day of eating it would back up her digestive system. So I'm thinking that perhaps the soy, or some other additive, was aggravating her condition.

She is not and I don't think will completely heal. There's an internal problem for sure. I need to keep her out of fruit, compost, and only let her nibble grass in small amounts. Occasionally, every 5 weeks or so, she has to have an "intermittent fasting day" if she's indulged in too much grass. She seems to know what to do when she doesn't feel great -- not eat for a day and drink a lot of water. I've only given her copper sulfate water once since my last post in May, as she was getting bloated and the yeasty smell was coming back.

I don't know how long she will live, but although she needs TLC, she seems to enjoy something every day.

On a much sadder note (and now I will start to cry), on June 4th, I lost my senior hen and best friend Cleo to a sudden and severe infection. When she went back to laying after her last molt in May, it didn't go well for her. She was sitting for long spells and the eggs she laid were absolutely enormous with delicate and pebbly shells. I gave her a calcium/phosphorus supplement, but something had happened internally. Perhaps also the death of Cheri, her last original flock mate, unsettled her, though she seemed very solid and confident even with the rooster and changes. After laying a few of these weak eggs, she weakened and couldn't walk, her legs swelled up and her skin turned yellow, had terrible diarrhea, etc. Even oxytetracycline injections did not help. After four days of declining, she suffered a heart attack and died. She is buried in the garden under this tree. I miss her terribly.

Beautiful Cleo. There will never be another one like her.

There is much new life however, four new additions hatched in late April and are doing well. And two hens are brooding eggs right now. My big handsome rooster Lucio is 11 months old. So there's joy in seeing all of this too.

Three of the youngsters. Segundo, Prima, and Tobias.

General Lucio and his best girl, Rusty

So much for peace and quiet.

Hope everyone who followed this thread is doing well and thank you again for all of your help and comments.

Kristen

 

[TropicalChickies]

I am sorry your girl is suffering with this for so long.

First, make sure she doesn't eat any fruits or berries as these can aggravate yeast. No other treats like bread, pasta, rice, anything with too many carbs. All of these can kick episodes off. Don't let her eat too much foliage either, it slows digestion down.

I had a hen with chronic sour crop and I found that a feed change did help her out a lot. (She was on Layena and I switched to a Manna Pro feed). But she definitely had some other underlying issue as she died at the age of 3 1/2. I am still not sure what did her in either.

If you chose to find another feed, mix in the new feed very slowly over a couple of weeks time as new feeds can cause upset to crops. And find a feed free of peas/field peas. They slow digestion down to a crawl which is what you are trying to avoid.

You might do another round of the Copper Sulfate for 10 days, followed by probiotics. And I would keep her on probiotics for some time after.

Get her a crop bra, they do wonders in keeping the food moving quicker out of the crop.

I wish I had some miracle cure for thus, I struggled with my girl for years and it was quite heart breaking.

Thank you for your advice. I will take it to heart. I've been keeping her off the grass. Our hens free range so it's hard for her, but she's taken up to hanging out in the kitchen with the dogs. This last episode was particularly bad I think because she got into the compost and ate a bunch of fruity bad things. But so did all the chickens, and only Butchie got sick, so I know she's got something else going on.

I promised myself that if she gets to a point where she is really suffering more than not, I'll have to put her down. But since she still responds to treatment and has more good days than bad, I'll do my best.

I'm definitely going to make her a bra. I notice when I gently press on the crop and just keep my hand there, it moves and goes down. Thank you.

 

[Cornflower]

This would be experimental, but as a hiatal hernia suffer that's found relief, you could try and enzyme supplement with ox bile. It would be safe to give to a chicken. It helps break down carbs and fats and aids in digestion so food doesn't just sit and rot in the stomach/crop, and remedies gas and bloating. But there's no one that's tried using it to treat crop. And you would have to dose with every meal forever if successful because it indicates insufficient gall bladder bile production and she needs the dietary enzyme support. Or perhaps there's a chicken version of enzyme support out there. You would have to figure out the does if you take apart capsules for humans, but there's no overdosing possibility.
But here is an article where broilers were fed desiccated ox bile to increase dietary absorption and increase the speed of the harvest weight. So, it shouldn't be harmful to give medicinally. Cross check all the ingredients on the label for being safe to give to chickens. Maybe ask a vet if it's safe to try.
Perhaps use it as a last resort if nothing else at all works?
The effect of desiccated ox bile supplementation on performance, fat digestibility, gut morphology and blood chemistry of broiler chickens fed tallow diets
https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/09712119.2011.580999

 

[TropicalChickies]

Last night Butchie's crop wasn't nearly as mushy as it has been the previous few days. It was clear again this morning, for the third day in a row. Her poop is a bit yellowish and soft, but not watery. She is alert and active when she comes out, but after her egg breakfast, she takes a nap. I'm going to keep her on the ACS for ten days as you suggest, then probiotics and a strict diet after that. Fingers crossed.

 

[TwoCrows]

Keep us posted on her, my heart goes out to you.

 

[TropicalChickies]

This would be experimental, but as a hiatal hernia suffer that's found relief, you could try and enzyme supplement with ox bile. It would be safe to give to a chicken. It helps break down carbs and fats and aids in digestion so food doesn't just sit and rot in the stomach/crop, and remedies gas and bloating. But there's no one that's tried using it to treat crop. And you would have to dose with every meal forever if successful because it indicates insufficient gall bladder bile production and she needs the dietary enzyme support. Or perhaps there's a chicken version of enzyme support out there. You would have to figure out the does if you take apart capsules for humans, but there's no overdosing possibility.
But here is an article where broilers were fed desiccated ox bile to increase dietary absorption and increase the speed of the harvest weight. So, it shouldn't be harmful to give medicinally. Cross check all the ingredients on the label for being safe to give to chickens. Maybe ask a vet if it's safe to try.
Perhaps use it as a last resort if nothing else at all works?
The effect of desiccated ox bile supplementation on performance, fat digestibility, gut morphology and blood chemistry of broiler chickens fed tallow diets
https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/09712119.2011.580999

This is very interesting. I will take a look, thank you very much.

 

[TropicalChickies]

Keep us posted on her, my heart goes out to you.

Thanks, I really appreciate it. I'm doing everything I can to help her. I was able to treat another hen successfully for sour crop (that one just got it once and recovered completely) but Butchie has been a labor of love...