Can I feed 19 week old laying hens 20% protein?

[Steph8208]

and if you have a local TSC, their "Dumor" brand now has a 20% protein as well, I believe. Its a little cheaper, like buying "store brand" at the grocery, but the comments here on BYC about it have not generally been positive. Lots of complaints aoubt it being powdery.

Of course, if you serve as a wet mash or fermented feed, that's not an issue.

if you have local mills, decent chance a 20% feed is available to you at a decent price.

and whatever you decide, fresher is better!

I had the exact opposite problem, I used Dumor and thought maybe to change them to Purina. The bag of Purina I got was 90% powder!

 

[TheOddOneOut]

can i ask why?

It’s because it doesn’t contain the calcium adult laying hens need to create eggshells.

 

[lynviviana]

and if you have a local TSC, their "Dumor" brand now has a 20% protein as well, I believe. Its a little cheaper, like buying "store brand" at the grocery, but the comments here on BYC about it have not generally been positive. Lots of complaints aoubt it being powdery.

Of course, if you serve as a wet mash or fermented feed, that's not an issue.

if you have local mills, decent chance a 20% feed is available to you at a decent price.

and whatever you decide, fresher is better!

okay so my next questions are, do i eventually need to change feed once a certain age? i'm a tad bit overwhelmed many people seem to have different opinions on this site. also, all flock and all flock raiser are they the same thing? this can be fed to cockerels, correct?

 

[lynviviana]

It’s because it doesn’t contain the calcium adult laying hens need to create eggshells.

thank you! my cockerels are okay with eating them too?

 

[TheOddOneOut]

thank you! my cockerels are okay with eating them too?

They can eat them, but likely won’t show much interest as they have no reason to eat them.

 

[U_Stormcrow]

OK, here goes.


"All Flock" and "Flock Raiser" are just labels. Meaningless. But they are the labels we in the community associate with high protein, "normal" (as opposed to "layer") Calcium level feeds ostensibly with mineral levels adjusted slightly for ducks and geese too (but that's not guaranteed) which can be fed without issue to chickens and ducks (at least) of all ages, all breeds, and all genders.

For most small, mixed flock, backyard chicken owners, its the overwhelming recommendation of the BYC community as the preferred feed method. No muss, no fuss, minimum of effort, works the whole life cycle. If you get crumble, you can raise hatchling chicks on it, too.

PLUS free choice oyster shell on the side.

WHY free choice oyster on the side (its a good question, we should have explained). Typically, Starter, Grower, All Flock, FLock Raiser, etc has (on average) about 1% calcium. That's enough for a baby chick to develop good bones, and for an adult bird to see to its own bodily needs, without flooding the body with so much calcium that the kidneys strain to excrete it, it calcifies in other soft tissues (liver, heart, intestinal tract) and can disrupt other tace mineral levels (like phospherous). It is NOT, however, enough calcium to support egg laying with a good shell. Laying birds need much more calcium for shell development - unhealthy levels for anybody else.

Back in the 60s and 70s, and thern repeated thereafter, studies were done for commercial producers to determine how much "extra" calcium a commercial layer, in a commercial management situation needed to support healthy shell development for market ready eggs. That answer is around 4% - so commercial "layer" feed averages around 4% calcium typically.

Putting out oyster shell, free choice, allows your laying birds to get the extra calcium they need when they crave it, in whatever amount they need, without force feeding it to other birds that it might harm.

But wait, I said the studies said 4% - and then I said "in whatever amount they may need". Why am I not giving a straight answer???

Because a commercial laying bird in commercial conditions is something like a Golden Comet, or a Leghorn variety, some 4-5# pullet, in its first year of lay, popping out large to extra large eggs 6 days out of 7. In year two when it might only drop eggs 4 to 5 days out of 7? The commercial egg farm has already disposed of the bird.

Meanwhile, home flocks have breeds like Cochin. A standard Cochin hen can reach 8#, and eats a lot more feed than a Comet. But it only produces a medium or medium large egg, and only two, sometimes three days out of seven - so it eats a lot more food, yet needs a lot less supplimental calcium. Allowing your birds to get their calcium on the side addresses that issue, with no effort on your part besides occasionally pouring more oyster shell in a separate bucket for them. I buy mine in 50# bags, lasts around a year.

Make sense??

Oh, and you CAN feed spent egg shells back to your birds. Air dried, baked or raw (the first two are recommended), crushed, smashed, or just cracked open (again, the first two are recommended). But because no system is perfect, even if you fed every egg shell back to your flock, they would still need additional calcium (albeit not much) from somewhere. Often they can obtain it from the environment, particularly tractored and free range birds - but for caged birds, counting on the 1% average in the feed plus all their shells back is pretty borderline - thier bodies aren't 100% efficient either.

 

[U_Stormcrow]

They can eat them, but likely won’t show much interest as they have no reason to eat them.

This is true. Chickens explore the world with their beaks. When you first put it out, its new, they may try some to see what the deal is. They will not try so much, or so often, that its dangerous to their health. Pretty soon, they will ignore it.

Then, like that bag of brussels sprouts in the back of the freezer, the oyster shell will remain untouched until some pregnant bird (ok, not necessarily pregnant - juist popping out eggs like a machine) decides it has a calcium craving. Then it eats up some oyster shell to get what it needs.

and if your birds free range, as mine do, there are some greens which are good for your birds (as they are good for us), which none the less block calcium absorption. Spinach and Collards are two examples, but many of the brassica (like the above brussels sprouts, actually) varieties have that potential. Now the birds can snack on those, and still get the calcium they need later, by eating a little more oyster shell.

 

[lynviviana]

Does anyone know if nutrena 16% layer pellet is safe for roosters. I see on the TSC site someone asked that question and the response was yes. can anyone confirm???

 

[Brooks_]

Does anyone know if nutrena 16% layer pellet is safe for roosters. I see on the TSC site someone asked that question and the response was yes. can anyone confirm???

Some will say yes. I will say no.

 

[U_Stormcrow]

Does anyone know if nutrena 16% layer pellet is safe for roosters. I see on the TSC site someone asked that question and the response was yes. can anyone confirm???

If it says "layer", that's too much calcium for the long term health of your roosters. 3.8% on average, in the case of the Nutrena Layer.

No guarantees, of course - its like smoking. No can can stare at a cigarette, and say "that's the one that will give you cancer". But we can say that the more often you smoke, and the longer you smoke, the better your chances of developing various cancers. (and then you may still die for completely unrelated reasons).

Same with roosters and high calcium diets. Maybe its a risk you are willing to take, in your management situation. Its all risk management and balancing trade offs.