Can some please explain this to me? SOP Pay walls?

[RememberTheWay]

So I have noticed that with breeding poultry we have the general APA, the ABA, then all the Individual breed clubs.

And all of the pertinent information for breeding these birds (not every breed but a good portion of them) act like the standard is a coveted secret and one must pay to become privy to this information. Example - to look at the silkie bantam SOP I either have to buy a 80$ book or pay for a $22 dollar membership.

I don't disagree with membership and dues but what I can't really wrap my head around is the fact I see so many birds who obviously aren't being bred to any kind of standard and lots of people complain about this, even me at times internally if not publicly, but why on earth would this information not be freely available so that more people could breed to the standard without being accosted by a paywall?

Personally, I would think that we would want EVERYONE even people who are not members of these clubs to still have the standards so that we could have a better market of suitable birds? Am I wrong on this? If you think so please explain?

These dues get super expensive really fast. If I join the APA, the ABA, the Ameraucana breeders club, the Ameraucana Alliance, The Silkie Club, then Bantam Cochins, I have Barred Rocks and Welsummer's as well as Serama's. That's an awful lot of money every year. I am probably forgetting some of the breeds I am interested in. Legbars don't have a club as far I know, maybe a European one?

Anyways.... Am I alone in thinking that the breed standards should be public knowledge and more easily accessible? Don't we want more people breeding to the standard? Plus there are lots of other benefits to these clubs for members....

I am going to add up what all these membership dues would cost me later, for yearly membership and lifetime (if they even offer lifetime, because not all of them do) and see what those actual number look like. Plus, once I factor in these added expenses am I supposed to include these memberships into figuring up how much my birds will cost someone? Not sure if that seems fair or not, especially considering some of these birds are already quite expensive

Okay...coming down off the soap box

Screenshots are what spurred this question/rant on.....

 

[Debbie292d]

One way I learned the SOP for silkies was go to quality breeder's websites. They'll usually post any awards they've won, proving that they're breeding to the SOP. There I see what theirs look like compared to my fancy ones. Unless they actually describe how their birds are bred to the SOP, it's not completely foolproof as we still don't know many of the intricacies.

I just researched silkies with breeders, on BYC, and elsewhere on the internet and scrounged up enough information to be confident about what I'm looking for. For you to do that for four or five breeds would take a ridiculous amount of time!

I agree with you that it would be nice if we could get this information from a reliable source for free, just for us who aren't showing our chickens, but we want to know which ones are breeder quality and which ones we should not breed. We sell our silkies—hundreds of them—and some of these have been at least 4H winners, so I'm proud that at least these are that good and would strive to continue them through the years. I have no book nor any membership. I bought from a quality breeder and since bought hatching eggs from other stringent breeders, and stuck with only the best quality birds. I paid dearly for them too.

 

[RossAcres]

People who write these SOP's and run these organization need income somehow. Not saying it's their full time job, but they should get some kind of compensation for all of the very hard work everyone puts into these books and organizations. I'm a member of the ABA, but not the APA because I only raise bantams. I'm also a member of National Call Breeders of America, but not in the wyandotte club. I just pick whichever I want to invest in and become a member. Some clubs are worth the money, some aren't.

 

[RememberTheWay]

People who write these SOP's and run these organization need income somehow. Not saying it's their full time job, but they should get some kind of compensation for all of the very hard work everyone puts into these books and organizations. I'm a member of the ABA, but not the APA because I only raise bantams. I'm also a member of National Call Breeders of America, but not in the wyandotte club. I just pick whichever I want to invest in and become a member. Some clubs are worth the money, some aren't.

I didn't say I didn't agree with paid membership. What I said was I think it's contradictory to hear these same members complain about so many sub standard birds being hatched, yet at the very same time so not freely make the standard available. And - not all of them do it. I don't agree with hiding the standard behind a paywall. Many of these clubs do make that available, which I think is the right thing to do. The Ameraucana Breeder Club is one of them that does- and guess what ? I'm still a due paying member! Even without them holding the standard ransom

 

[RossAcres]

I didn't say I didn't agree with paid membership. What I said was I think it's contradictory to hear these same members complain about so many sub standard birds being hatched, yet at the very same time so not freely make the standard available. And - not all of them do it. I don't agree with hiding the standard behind a paywall. Many of these clubs do make that available, which I think is the right thing to do. The Ameraucana Breeder Club is one of them that does- and guess what ? I'm still a due paying member! Even without them holding the standard ransom

I think I'm misunderstanding you. Can you explain what you mean by holding the standard ransom? Are you talking about how the APA and ABA standard are something you have to purchase? Or specific breed club's standards? If you're talking about breed club's, their standard doesn't overpower the ABA or APA standard. The APA and ABA standard are "law". I apologize, I just want to understand what you're referring to so I can help somehow.

 

[RememberTheWay]

I think I'm misunderstanding you. Can you explain what you mean by holding the standard ransom? Are you talking about how the APA and ABA standard are something you have to purchase? Or specific breed club's standards? If you're talking about breed club's, their standard doesn't overpower the ABA or APA standard. The APA and ABA standard are "law". I apologize, I just want to understand what you're referring to so I can help somehow.

It was a joke. Meaning that some of the breed clubs do not make their standard known to the general public, you must pay for a membership to gain entry to the standard or you must buy an $80 dollar book. I don't agree with this portion of the clubs. I do agree with membership dues as I do understand it takes money to make things happen. But I hear a lot of people complain that birds aren't being bred to these standards when at the same time the actual standard isn't freely available to the public, they must pay to gain entry to it. I also realize that not all clubs do this, some of them do make their standard freely available, which I completely agree with and think all of them should do.

 

[RememberTheWay]

If you're talking about breed club's, their standard doesn't overpower the ABA or APA standard. The APA and ABA standard are "law".

I'm not sure what you meant by this statement though? I wasn't aware that the APA or the ABA made any standards freely available. As far as I know I must pay for membership or buy a very expensive book to gain knowledge of the standards, are you saying this isn't true?

 

[ShrekDawg]

I don’t really understand why the standards are so hidden and secretive anyways. I mean, in dogs they’re all freely available and dogs cost a lot more than most poultry. You’d think the dogs would be hidden but they’re not. So why are the bird ones?

 

[Susan Skylark]

Are so-called breed standards good for the actual breed or are they a bunch of random preferences based on someone’s opinion? That’s what drives me crazy (no matter species or public knowledge thereof). In dogs you get some trait (say a flat face) that gets bred to the extreme resulting in dogs that require a c-section every pregnancy and dogs that can’t breathe. In dairy cattle you get these awkward looking cows that wouldn’t survive five minutes on your average dairy farm. It is one thing to Say x or y trait is a hindrance to the animal and breed it out but to breed so extremely for a certain (often arbitrary) trait that it affects the comfort and productivity of the animal is downright unethical, I wish the elite breed people would aim for a beautiful but also realistically functional animal, but most don’t have to have their stock try to survive in the real world (foot long hair on a Guinea pig!?).

 

[TexasBlues]

Form should follow function, not fashion