Can someone clarify "closed flock" to me?

[speckledhen]

By the way Speckled I think you may be most wise, most well spoken, to the point, person on this site. I really enjoy your posts. In this case I think you and Poulet are sort of talking about two different issues.

Thank you for the compliment, though I'm not sure I deserve it. Your point is well-taken. Chris is speaking of genetically closed and there are long time breeders who have not added new blood to their flock in years, though that is usually referring to a single breed. For example, perhaps a persons's RIR flock is closed, genetically, but they may breed Orpingtons which might not be closed, genetically. I am speaking of closed in terms of bringing health issues into the flock because I believe that is what shelley meant, however, if I was mistaken, I apologize. There are two meanings to "closed", certainly, and shades of meaning when we speak of the closed for biosecurity.​

 

[greathorse]

I agree with you Cynda I think the OP was speaking mostly to teh bio security side of this. I just wanted to see if there wasnt perhaps a different term used to define "closed' in terms of genetics and "closed' in terms of bio security. It seems like some folks are comfortable with adding breeding stock it they hatch eggs from off premise breeding.

I dont really have an opinion I mostly listen and learn on here. My flocks are not closed from either perspective, but when I get a few of the breeds I would like to work with I would sure like to tighten up a lot.

 

[shelleyb1969]

Thanks for all the input and opinions...this is great!...yet still a little confusing. My original post was not considering hatching eggs whatsoever. I, myself, feel that if you hatch your own birds on your own farm, then you can say you have a closed flock. However, it's when it comes to allowing outside birds onto your property. Let's try this again...

I will use myself AS AN EXAMPLE, and you intelligent folks give me your opinions.

Let's just say for argument's sake, I have a "closed flock". And a friend has a bird they no longer want. So I take it and re-home it within a few days. Is my flock still closed? And it is accurate for me to say, after the bird leaves my property, that I have a closed flock?

I have more examples, but want to get your feedback on this first.

 

[Poulets De Cajun]

If you are speaking in the way of biosecurity, then no you wouldn't have a closed flock, as you've just taken the chance of bringing disease in from the friends bird...

 

[speckledhen]

Well, if you put the bird into your flock, certainly no, you do not have a closed flock. To me, that rather depends on your quarantine procedures, whether you can say it's closed or not. How far away is it? How good are your biosecurity procedures in caring for it while on your property? Then again, guess if it's on your property anywhere, you might lose your "closed flock" status, even if it never contacts your actual flock.
I'm sending you a PM, shelley.

 

[shelleyb1969]

Quote:
Thanks Cyn....very well said, and so understandable to those of us who have been so confused by this.

 

[speckledhen]

It's a bit of a subjective thing in regard to biosecurity. The genetics part is more clear-cut, IMO.

 

[cgmccary]

Closed Flock:

I agree that from a genetics standpoint, it is very clear-cut. Either you breed from within ONLY (a closed flock) OR you bring in new blood from an outside source (either by hatching eggs, chicks, started birds or adults) (not a closed flock).

From a bio-security standpoint, I actually think a closed flock means the same thing (no hatching eggs, no chicks, no started birds, no adults). However, you can minimize your birds' exposure by starting from hatching eggs (but we know there are some things carried in the eggs like Pullorum) or from day old chicks (and again, there are some things carried by day old chicks).

You decrease your risk by strict quarantining as has been suggested.

You decrease your risk if you buy any incoming stock from a keeper that is NPIP certified and that you know has disease free birds. However, there is always a potential that a new bird immune to the premise it came from brings something (undetectable) to your birds who have never encountered the "something" and thus, have "no immunity" to the undetectable thing. No amount of quarantine will guard you from this happening.

The bio-security risk would increase if you brought in started birds or adults, of course. Your bio-security risk is greater if you attend a poultry show or go to somebody else's chicken yard and wear the same clothes back to your yard. There is a risk to letting another poultry keeper in your yard.

The long and short of it is to do those things suggested by Cynthia and the rest of the folks on minimizing the chances of bringing something bad to your flock.

On a side note: when my State Ag guy was here last month re-certifying my flock for NPIP, he always asks me if my chicks are only from eggs in my flock. I am in the city and so there aren't poultry trucks driving anywhere near my address. He said that I would have more to worry about if I were in the country and had poultry trucks from the commercial farms running up & down the highway in front of my premises. The commercial industry is where the worry lies, be aware of this fact.

Probably, where I reside, there have not been chickens anywhere near me for more than 100 years. Most of what I have now is raised from within & I haven't had any introductions since I took in the new male (7 months old) 2 years ago. I figure that gives me the new blood/ diversity I need to go for some years. I do not permit anyone in my yard, don't go to shows and I don't visit others' birds without changing & washing clothes and NOT wearing the same shoes. All this means my birds have probably been exposed to very little in the way of disease & I am happy to keep it that way. Good discussion.

 

[chickflick]

This has been very informative. I didn't realize the time and effort you take to protect your flock. I guess if you're a breeder that's what it takes.

 

[speckledhen]

The commercial industry is where the worry lies, be aware of this fact.

Bingo! And all laws passed are to protect that industry, not the birds themselves, IMO. But, that is another issue for another thread.


We can all minimize our risks, whether the flock is completely closed to fit someone else's definition or not. Eventually, even a closed flock may have to bring in some new blood, say predators wipe out the main breeders in the flock or any number of other scenarios. If you don't, eventually the flock could die out entirely. You just must be very cautious in how we add to that flock and usually, there is a lesser risk in buying hatching eggs from a reputable breeder than buying started birds from anyone.

**and it isn't just breeders who need to protect their flocks. I don't consider myself a breeder, but I am as careful as I can reasonably be without making all visitors wear biohazard suits.​