Caponizing a roo

[LaFleche]

It would be so nice to have a viable option that would allow for saving their lives too.

Here you go:

The only detail I can provide: Suprelorin implant (Deslorelin) https://www.vetpharm.uzh.ch/WIR/00005777/3656_01.htm

 

[Ellegibs]

I'm just curious. How do we know animals don't have the same attachment to their junk as humans do? Did someone ask them and get an answer? I think we make a lot of assumptions because that's what's make us feel better about what we're doing.

 

[NatJ]

I'm just curious. How do we know animals don't have the same attachment to their junk as humans do? Did someone ask them and get an answer? I think we make a lot of assumptions because that's what's make us feel better about what we're doing.

An animal neutered when young, after it has recovered from the procedure, tends to act just the same as an un-neutered one until the age of puberty. So it appears to us that they are not disturbed by the change. Yes, we are making assumptions based on how it appears to us.

 

[lightspeed]

I'm just curious. How do we know animals don't have the same attachment to their junk as humans do? Did someone ask them and get an answer? I think we make a lot of assumptions because that's what's make us feel better about what we're doing.

Human males do seem to have a rather superfluous attachment to their “junk” as you call it. And nearly every animal species on the planet demonstrates the same emotions that we, rather ignorantly, had always assumed we were the sole harbingers of. BUT, if I were a rooster...and I was offered a situation, under which I might be happily able to stay in my home...or even be lovingly adopted for life in the first place...in other words, a chance to LIVE, instead of the way they seem to be currently treated..losing internal gonads would be a small price to pay for my life. Right now the poor males are ground up alive commercially, and the few that do get homes are often subject to culling when a rooster is deemed too aggressive or not ‘fitting’ in with the other animals. And, while the testosterone from his testes are not the sole determiner of aggression or other behavior....the presence and/or absence of this hormone does act as a modulator to turn things up or down. I just got my first chicken 2.5 months ago....she flew over my fence. I want to help save a male too. It just isn’t right to not try.

 

[aart]

How do we know animals don't have the same attachment to their junk as humans do? Did someone ask them and get an answer? I think we make a lot of assumptions because that's what's make us feel better about what we're doing.

.....and many assume that animals have the same thought processes as we do.
Anthropomorphism.

 

[lightspeed]

.....and many assume that animals have the same thought processes as we do.
Anthropomorphism.

I am very familiar with biology, science and the various terms. And I understand anthropomorphism, yet you simply put the term out ‘there’ without any evidence that it is what I or anyone else is promoting or, in fact,doing. Perhaps you need to be introduced to the words altruism and compassion...and extend them to the animal inhabitants you share the world with. An assumption that animals would prefer living to non existence is certainly not an untenable position. You are biologically an animal as well: which would you prefer? I am an animal rescuer and a person who lives everyday attempting to mitigate the wrongs and ‘throw away’ attitude of our society towards the ‘lesser’ creatures. Attitudes like mine can and do have an impact. Do not assume that because I am kind...I am not aware of science or biology...Science is awesome, but must be combined with common sense.

 

[ladybrasa]

Yes. Of course we have no idea what an animal “thinks”, but with that we are assuming they can “think” at all. To be clear, animals are not “dumb”, just different, and excel at other abilities. Of course the definition of “thinking” is pretty nebulous to begin with. Anthropomorphizing helps us relate to other species better which can be a good thing, and we can relate through basic emotions, too. I mean we are way behind effectively studying animal cognition and even how they feel pain. I remember being in a seminar and the speaker showing painting from a few hundred years ago of men tossing a dog onto a table and cutting it open ... awake and alive, to study organs. But animals had no feelings of pain (or anything else). Variations of this still exist. Pain management for cats is extremely lacking to this day and we still have a hard time even figuring out how to test and quantify pain. I mean, humans used to castrate humans in a variety of cultures. They lived, well, unless their innards fell out through the cut ...

ANYWAY, I say animals don’t have as much attachment to their testicles just through observation, not any scientific study. My example is neutering a cat -say they have ear mites that are cleaned out while under anesthesia the same time they are getting their testicles removed. When they are recovering and just coming out of anesthesia, they can start moving but not fully aware yet. I don’t recall ever seeing one try to get to their empty sack. The moment they can move they are kicking their legs to scratch at their ears. Not their removed organs, but itchy ears. I’m sure it hurts there, too. Never seen a freshly neutered male can give any indication of missing his testicles. Unless it gets infected and the area is sore and bothersome. Of course myself or anyone can quantify the response. We also know (again I’m thinking mammals) castrated animals seem to blend in fine with their social groups. I suspect capons would find their place also, but it would be great to hear from people who keep some beyond butcher.

We also need to consider that for most animals, hormones and procreation and make and female roles are intimately tied to just trying to survive enough to pass on genes. A female cat will go in and out of heat until bred, and her whole existence will be homonally driven to breed and pop out babies, and eat just enough to survive. (Again I know cats aren’t chickens) However a pet animal that has been fixed is not ruled by hormones, and can focus on other behaviors of their species. I’m probably still anthropomorphizing, though, but it seems a reasonable thought.

Anyway, sorry for the super long post!!

 

[lightspeed]

Yes. Of course we have no idea what an animal “thinks”, but with that we are assuming they can “think” at all. To be clear, animals are not “dumb”, just different, and excel at other abilities. Of course the definition of “thinking” is pretty nebulous to begin with. Anthropomorphizing helps us relate to other species better which can be a good thing, and we can relate through basic emotions, too. I mean we are way behind effectively studying animal cognition and even how they feel pain. I remember being in a seminar and the speaker showing painting from a few hundred years ago of men tossing a dog onto a table and cutting it open ... awake and alive, to study organs. But animals had no feelings of pain (or anything else). Variations of this still exist. Pain management for cats is extremely lacking to this day and we still have a hard time even figuring out how to test and quantify pain. I mean, humans used to castrate humans in a variety of cultures. They lived, well, unless their innards fell out through the cut ...

ANYWAY, I say animals don’t have as much attachment to their testicles just through observation, not any scientific study. My example is neutering a cat -say they have ear mites that are cleaned out while under anesthesia the same time they are getting their testicles removed. When they are recovering and just coming out of anesthesia, they can start moving but not fully aware yet. I don’t recall ever seeing one try to get to their empty sack. The moment they can move they are kicking their legs to scratch at their ears. Not their removed organs, but itchy ears. I’m sure it hurts there, too. Never seen a freshly neutered male can give any indication of missing his testicles. Unless it gets infected and the area is sore and bothersome. Of course myself or anyone can quantify the response. We also know (again I’m thinking mammals) castrated animals seem to blend in fine with their social groups. I suspect capons would find their place also, but it would be great to hear from people who keep some beyond butcher.

We also need to consider that for most animals, hormones and procreation and make and female roles are intimately tied to just trying to survive enough to pass on genes. A female cat will go in and out of heat until bred, and her whole existence will be homonally driven to breed and pop out babies, and eat just enough to survive. (Again I know cats aren’t chickens) However a pet animal that has been fixed is not ruled by hormones, and can focus on other behaviors of their species. I’m probably still anthropomorphizing, though, but it seems a reasonable thought.

Anyway, sorry for the super long post!!

Your post is most excellent and made so many valid points regarding cognition and behaviors. An enjoyable, intelligent read!

 

[aart]

I suspect capons would find their place also, but it would be great to hear from people who keep some beyond butcher.

Yes. This is the only one I've seen. Seems they didn't miss their 'junk' at all.

They were Barred Rocks. I did the procedures myself about a dozen of them I lost no patients but did have two partial failures where for fear of their life I closed before I found the second gonads. I did the surgery at about10 weeks of age. The first harvest was at about one year the last two were caught at about two years when we culled the uncaponized males from the most recent hatches. I have to admit being pretty pround of myself for not losing any of them, But we got more crunched for living space so we cull roos before the effects of caponizing would give enough benefit to be worth the stress on the animals and myself.

 

[Carson213]

I have read a bit of info about this but haven’t done it. In my opinion, if I was going to do it, I would order the instruments that are made for this procedure and then I would practice a couple times on a dead cockerel that you just harvested. It seems like a pretty straight forward procedure. Like mentioned above...I know several veterinarians but none of them have done this...not to say they wouldn’t...but they haven’t. I was going to caponize my cockerels if I had more than one but I ended up with only one out of 24 birds and ironically he’s the tamest out of all of them. If his temperament changes and it becomes an issue, I’ve already missed the ideal window of time to caponize him and will probably harvest him. However, right now it has been ideal having him in the flock.