Cedar Creek Hatchery in Twin Lake, MI

[Bird Nerd]

I have yet to contact the hatchery, I'm not 100% certain how many roosters I have and at the pace I'm going, I won't have any left!
I wanted to update that I lost another chick last night, my second Bluebell, who was doing fine up until about 3 days ago when she started looking listless and started breathing heavily. Last week I found poultry lice on all of them, which surprised me because I've never had chickens and my coop was built brand new for me last month. Could they have picked it up from the hatchery? I dusted them and the litter with DE and the lice seems to be gone now, but I know I have to reapply in 7-10 days to treat the eggs too.
I ordered 6 new chicks from Townline Hatchery in Zeeland, they deliver to the feed store in town so I get to pick them up on the 9th! I'm really curious as to how these chicks will be different from the ones from Cedar Creek, I'm hoping they will be stronger, and I am definitely prepared for anything to go wrong!

Can anyone tell me when I can be certain I have roosters? Also, in your opinion, since I am getting new chicks I am debating getting rid of my current four and starting completely over. Is that crazy? I don't want anything to be passed on to my new chicks, and I think I only have one pullet anyway. Thanks for your help, I will also update when I contact the hatchery.

 

[JimmyLang]

what did you get from townline? I have always had good chicks from them. all I ever ordered from them is Isa Browns and Cornish cross though. The only way I know to tell that you will have roosters is on the sex link chickens Isa Browns are easy to tell apart.

 

[strawberryfields]

In my humble experience I have found Townline to be a very good reliable source for chickens if they have what you want. They are more for production birds and that is all good. They provide a high percentage success rate for sexing chicks, unlike Cedar Creek. 80+ % success rate. There is no 100 % accuracy rate but vent sexing is unequivocally the most reliable method. Feather sexing is a farce with most breeds. The only breeds that can be reliably feather sexed are certain sex link breeds, and yet people keep latching onto the idea that feather sexing can be accurate. For most breeds it CANNOT be accurate.

Parasites may not have come from the hatchery to be honest. Parasites are common and can turn up almost anywhere. You are doing right by treating them accordingly. It has not normally been a problem for me over here but it has been for neighbors. I treat my birds periodically with various methods (which can be found on the boards here) to keep them parasite free. It is an ongoing battle because I take in a lot of birds I get from friends and other situations. Sometimes they come to me very young full of parasites, from responsible homes, and I can only draw the conclusion that their yard was full of the right sort of parasite at the right time, OR, alternatively, the birds simply didn't get enough food or met with other stressful situations.

It is a tough call and I will not play the blame game, I am more interested in sharing knowledge and making sure everyone has the proper information. To me it sounds as though you are doing everything right.

I would separate the Townline chicks for two reasons: the new chicks will likely get picked on by the older chicks. Also, because you think your Cedar Creek chicks are not 100% well, you don't want to spread any possible illness, even if it turns out they are illness free. It is ALWAYS a good idea to to separate any new chicks for a number of weeks before introducing them.

Hope this makes sense

 

[strawberryfields]

You can kind of sort of tell when you have roosters because roosters tend to develop their comb more quickly. I have about 1/2 of the birds I ordered from Cedar Creek turning out to be roosters but in all honestly, it is still a bit early to tell. I am pretty sure I have more than 1/2 of my order that are roosters because of their overly developed combs. Roosters also often present themselves as bigger than hens (not a reliable method of sexing, but you might get an idea). Roosters also develop "saddle feathers" beyond what hens develop. Once you see these characteristics, you will become a lot more confident in sexing your chicks. However, sometimes roosters can be late bloomers, meaning that they don't show their "rooster" characteristics until after six months or so and you might have already been convinced they were hens by that time. Also, I have sold MANY roosters to people who thought they were buying hens (at auction) because they simply assumed that the comb was normal for the breed, when in reality sexing takes a much greater talent of eyeballing and naming and understanding the combs of each breed,

 

[strawberryfields]

Even Silkies, who are notorious for being late bloomers show characteristics that are easily identifiable in sexing if you know what to look for!

 

[DelcoChix]

OK...I have really been hoping to finally provide an update that would be positive, a happily ever after. Didn't work out that way.

Bottom line--I just sent my final e-mail to Cedar Creek Hatchery, burning that bridge. I will not be doing 'business' with them again.
Here's a brief summary: I ordered 20 chicks for hatch date of March 26--5 Bluebells, 5 "Ameracaunas," wanted Black Copper Marans (10) but wouldn't have any for another month so he generously offered to substitute Wheaten Marans, and then some Blue Copper Marans also.
I also (stupidly) paid extra for the feather sexing, knowing it's not a sure thing, but thought it might increase the usual 50/50 pullet/cockerel ratio a little bit--my bad.

I was shipped 22 chicks--arrived looking great, lost one the second night for unknown reasons.
Ended up with 21 chicks--9 pullets, 12 cockerels final tally. And that's paying extra for 'feather sexing.' So much for the 50/50 ratio.
Of course I've paid for 20 chicks, shipping, feed, brooding, and care for 3 months to end up selling three and giving away the rest.
So, I've paid quite a bit for 9 pullets and one cockerel I'm keeping.

Next: The breeds.....
Ameraucanas...Not. Easter Eggers...Yes.
Not a big issue as pricing was reasonable...just would appreciate honesty in advertising as I was hoping for blue egg layers, may have waited and gotten more Marans, or something else, getting real Ameraucanas later.
Summary: four cockerals, one pullet for sure --all had nice muffs and EE green leg coloring. (paid for 5)

Bluebells...no idea what variety of coloring they come in--as the 'blue' does not breed true, I understand they can arrive as splash, black, and blues, but I have no idea since my numerous inquiries (along with taking the time to send pics) have not been replied to. I just want to know if what I think are BB are really BB. Asking too much? Apparently so. Regardless, it looks like I ended up with two cockerels that were basically solid white with a 2-3 very small blue dots, one cockerel that was very speckled black and white, almost barred pattern (all with yellow legs), and a pullet who looks a lot like the white cockerels--very flighty, reminds me of leghorns. Also have a black pullet who I think is BB--no feathers on legs, but her legs are green.
Summary: 5 possible BB, 3 boys, two girls, I think (paid for 5, I know)

Marans: Ordered 10, 5 Wheaten and 5 Blue Copper.
Vast uncertainty here....I know for a fact I have a beautiful Wheaten Marans pullet. Just one. Thought I'd get five.
Cockerels:
White with blue splash
Blue Copper
Black Copper (may be blue or wheaten...but very dark, appear to be black, and copper heads) 3 of them
Pullets:
Solid Blue
Blue with copper heads and feathered legs (2)
Blue with copper head NO leg feathers (1)

Total Marans received: 10
pullets: 5
cockerels: 5
Blue/Black Copper-9
Wheaten: 1

I have two birds that I have no idea what they are...may post separately in the proper forum, but one for sure meets no description of what I ordered and paid for. Never been so confused.

I have also requested frequently, NPIP paperwork so don't have load up the three birds dd wants to take to the fair, and take them to have the blood test for pullorum, and have to pay for it. The last response I received was back in early July when he said he'd sent the papers with the chicks (I only saw chicks in the box), and then he said he sent them again in June. I have offered to review my address, re-send photos for ID help, clarification on the 'credit' he offered for the extreme number of cockerels (but he has not once responded to exactly what the credit would be...specific amount, chick for chick, who pats shipping, again, etc.), even asked if he could scan and send the NPIP papers through e-mail.

It's been six weeks and no response so I have finally given up hope for answers. Just sent him my final e-mail, burning all the bridges. Really dislike the outcome, tried to give every opportunity to redeem himself and his business, but I am a small fish and apparently not relevant in the big business of hatcheries--although I would highly recommend Meyer Hatchery--they treated me a LOT better and I spent a LOT less, and I got all girls--healthy, wonderful personalities, pretty, and I know exactly what breed they are...oh yeah...also have NPIP papers from the get-go. And Meyer has been around a lot longer and is a LOT larger than this place.
Sad thing is, I have a few gorgeous birds from this place...no idea how they measure up to the breed standard, but they are beautiful. Just wanted help, answers, input from someone claiming to be experienced...all I got was the runaround, and then crickets.
Wake up call for trusting folks.
Now, moving on--plenty more places to spend my money, and other businesses worth supporting out there, big and small, who do care about their customers. Hope this helps someone else to make an informed decision--wish I'd seen something like this in February.
Signing off and moving on

 

[Bird Nerd]

You can kind of sort of tell when you have roosters because roosters tend to develop their comb more quickly. I have about 1/2 of the birds I ordered from Cedar Creek turning out to be roosters but in all honestly, it is still a bit early to tell. I am pretty sure I have more than 1/2 of my order that are roosters because of their overly developed combs. Roosters also often present themselves as bigger than hens (not a reliable method of sexing, but you might get an idea). Roosters also develop "saddle feathers" beyond what hens develop. Once you see these characteristics, you will become a lot more confident in sexing your chicks. However, sometimes roosters can be late bloomers, meaning that they don't show their "rooster" characteristics until after six months or so and you might have already been convinced they were hens by that time. Also, I have sold MANY roosters to people who thought they were buying hens (at auction) because they simply assumed that the comb was normal for the breed, when in reality sexing takes a much greater talent of eyeballing and naming and understanding the combs of each breed,

Thank you for your response! I have not been on here much during this busy summer, but I appreciate the time you took answering my questions.

DelcoChix, I have had the same experience. I have given Cedar Creek many opportunities to make things right, and working in customer service I know what works when dealing with businesses, but they have yet to respond to my many requests. They are a "Working farm" after all, you can't expect them to listen and reply to messages! I feel awkward, because they are only about 10 miles from my house, and I knew by going to their farm it was a small establishment, but I'm afraid I'm going to run into them at the local feed store or grocery or something. Maybe then I'll give them a piece of my mind.
Anyway, how my story ended up was that I ended up with 4 chicks who made it out of 10. 6 chicks died from mysterious reasons, and the 4 remaining were never well, they always had drippy noses or were wheezing. The 4 I had left, 3 were definitely roosters, and the Ameraucana did look like a true pullet, she was blue/grey and had beautiful slate legs. However, she got eaten by something out in the woods. She was always the slowest of the 4 we had left. So, that left me with 3 roosters (Some sort of Marans, Barred Rock, and Speckled Sussex.) I tried and tried to get Cedar Creek to take them back, or give me a reimbursement but no response what so ever. I gave two away and decided to keep the S.Sussex, but unfortunately he met his demise by a woodland creature too. I can only hope he gave the creature the case of chronic diarrhea he suffered from.
I now have 6 9-week old chicks from Townline Hatchery that are thriving, they've never sneezed, never had a day where they wouldn't get up because they were too weak, and are all FEMALE. They are in a fully cleaned out and freshly painted coop with attached fully enclosed run. I guess my chickens from Cedar Creek were practice chickens, and now I know what to do and what not to do. It's sad because my Marans rooster was so beautiful, and I would love a Marans in the future, but I'm so hesitant to order from anywhere else now. Here he is the day we gave him away, at 12 weeks old.




To future Cedar Creek Hatchery patrons, I wish you luck, but proceed with caution. You will get beautiful birds, but there is a good chance they will be roosters or not what you ordered.

 

[ladycat]

If I had read this topic before I ordered from these people, I might not have ordered! I received chicks from them yesterday, and my experience was mixed.

Here's what I ordered:

10 Black-tailed Buff Marans (with sports)
5 Silver Cuckoo Marans

When the box arrived, this was noted on the box:

13 BTB
3 Silver/Gold Cuckoos

The chicks are VERY healthy and vigorous, but I'm not sure what I got! I'm going to start a new thread with pics for identification, but what I seem to have is 1 silver cuckoo, 1 gold cuckoo, 2 black "somethings", and 12 that I think are mostly BTB but some have a suspicious resemblance to wheatons.

Due to the unauthorized substitutions, I won't order from these people again. Too bad, because the chicks certainly do seem healthy.

 

[memphis]

Had similar experience with them last year. Ordered 5 speckled Sussex, got 8 dead birds in a box. They finally shipped replacement birds 4 weeks later. Seven birds arrived. All healthy but ended up with 5 roosters & 2 hens. Never could get them to respond to me. Just gave up & finally placed the roosters. So disapointed. Will never do business with them again.

 

[DelcoChix]

I'm sorry to hear ladycat and memphis both have had less than positive experiences also. I totally understand there may be losses due to the stresses of shipping, no matter the season or time in transit, and also the occasional mix-up with breeds. What I do not understand is the lack of common courtesy of answering specific questions, vague responses if any at all, lack of requested paperwork, and there is no reason that the buyer should not have a clue what breeds their birds are at 5 months of age. The apparent arbitrary substitution of a different breed without having the customers ok is not the way to do business--unless the hatchery says somewhere obvious that they will substitute if the breeds hatching rate isn't as sucessful...but only if the customer is ok with it, or has the option to select the substitution they want--and the pricing is matched, or a refund is freely offered.

I suppose if you are in business with the "one and done" business plan then not much we can do about it...but as the consumer we have plenty of other good, reputable breeders and hatcheries with a longer, proven track record to back them up.

Fool me once, shame on you...fool me twice, shame on me.