Cedar Shavings

[B. Saffles Farms]

We use cedar for the guinea pig, and hes healthy as a horse.

 

[chickorama]

NO CEDAR!!! BAD BAD BAD!!!!!!!!

 

[Tailfeathers]

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Well Bearfoot, it looks like you've found your way over from the other post. I might add you can also find whatever you want if you look for it. On the other post you listed several different links to so-called evidence and after I read them, I went back and quoted from those sources the evidence that cedar isn't as toxic as you were claiming. They just happened to be from an animal-rights website too. I have no idea what "Rat Fan Club" is and I'm not taking the time to find out this time either because if you read that paper it pretty much proves my point as well and there is nothing in it that substantiates any claim that cedar is harmful to chickens - let alone LEATHAL!

You people can do what you want but all one has to do is use a little common sense and ask yourselves, if cedar were soooooooo bad and it was LEATHAL, then why don't you read on BYC and other poultry sites about birds just dropping over like dead flies?

The fact is, if cedar were sooooooo bad and LEATHAL the EPA and God only knows what other government agencies would be restricting it or outlawing it. For cryin' out loud, you can't dump a pan of dishwater out in your yard without the EPA coming down on you. One of the reasons why every thing we buy is so cotton-pickin' expensive is because of all the ecological and environmental regulations.

No, the reason pet stores, feed stores, and other stores sell cedar is not because people buy it but rather because it is safe. IF IT WASN'T SAFE - YOU COULD NOT BUY IT!! The government would see to it.

How many toys were recalled last year because there was a little lead found in one? There's ALL the proof you need. You can bet your bottom dollar that if it wasn't safe - the government wouldn't be letting it be sold!

Do what you want to. I use it with chicks all the way to adults. I've had cedar chips laying in the water that chicks drink and haven't lost a single one. What I don't have is lice, mites, fleas, or any other vermin. I have nothing but very healthy birds.

And as Forrest says, "Thaaat's awl I half to say abut dat!"

God Bless,

 

[wohneli]

The government lets us buy cigarettes and they are not safe. They are driven by $$$$$ just like the pet stores and the hatcheries and the feed stores.
My opinion is that if there is any question about safety of something and there is a viable alternative, then use the alternative.

 

[UrbanMama]

I think the cedar vs pine debate is one that each person needs to research for themselves... and then make their own, informed decision about.

I'll be researching it for myself as our feed store is currently out of pine. One of the biggest problems I've found on the net though, is one person has an opinion....and then other people quote that "opinion"..... and next thing you know opinion has become "fact". I'll be looking for scientific studies and results. If I find nothing conclusive....I may end up having to buy some cedar tomorrow.

 

[Bear Foot Farm]

if you read that paper it pretty much proves my point as well and there is nothing in it that substantiates any claim that cedar is harmful to chickens - let alone LEATHAL!

If you read the paper AND the sources it cites, it shows that cedar IS HARMFUL to any animal that breathes the fumes .
"Lethal" may not be the proper term, since that implies it's always "deadly", but theres no evidence that it's SAFE.

It's easy to say "It's not true" but without something to back it up, it's just an opinion with no basis in fact.
Feel free to show any studies that say there are no harmful effects.
I've already shown one you said didnt exist

If the fumes arent irritating, why do they repel moths and fleas?

In fact, if you open this link http://www.epa.gov/oppsrrd1/REDs/factsheets/3150fact.pdf you will see this comment "natural cedar products which consist totally of cedar wood, are not combined or impregnated with other substances, and are intended only to repel arthropods other than ticks and/or to retard mildew. EPA believes it is unnecessary to regulate these products because they pose little or no risk to human health or the environment. Consumers are not likely to be exposed to significant amounts of cedarwood dust or oil, either dermally or by inhalation, when using these products. EPA is not aware of any evidence of injury to human health or the environment due to their use."

This is the "proof" you cited, but it doesnt apply to the ANIMALS that are living in direct contact with the chips. The EPA isnt concerned with them. Here's another quote from that same source:

[b]A laboratory study using mice and a study of workers in saw mills
suggest that cedarwood oil may cause liver and pulmonary toxicity.
However, these effects were associated with long term exposures to[/b]
relatively high levels of cedarwood oil. EPA does not expect such effects to
occur among users of currently registered cedarwood oil products because
their exposure is intermittent and at a low level.

Ultimately , the choice to use it is an individual one, but it should be an informed choice based on DATA and not opinion​

 

[pollodos]

Didn't mean to start a big fight. Next time I'll try to pick a less controversial topic like when does life begin or which came first, the chicken or the egg.
Peace

 

[RickiHupp]

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No big deal about your question!!

I think there are many pros and cons with both cedar and pine. I, myself, use aspen bedding with a handful of cedar mixed in.

 

[rebelcowboysnb]

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""This means war!!!""

 

[Bear Foot Farm]

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There's no "fight". Just an exchange of information and sources.
(and the egg came first, but there was a dinosaur in it)