Censorship rears its ugly head. Sort-of. *SIGH*

[me&thegals]

Fascinating topic that has obviously interested a lot of us! I have children in public school, so I guess I can see this from a lot of angles. They are great readers, but this issue has not come up yet.

What I see is a school system strained to bursting--not enough money, not enough time and way too many behavioral issues to deal with. Our school has excellent staff, but there are some days that not much teaching seems to get done.

I think education needs to be a shared job between families and school. The school tremendously encourages and appreciates parents volunteering, helping raise money, spending time in the classroom, lunchroom and playground. I can feel for the teacher who has been posting on here--it sounds like a very difficult job with very little support. I've found that when I offer all the support I have time for, really great relationships can be developed between my family and my child's teacher and I hope that a lot more education can happen then.

I guess I can see why a librarian initially might now allow this book to be checked out to a young student, but a parental note should surely smooth the way!

 

[Wildsky]

I haven't read all the posts.

Just wanted to say I'm in the same boat - well no books have been refused yet - but my son in 4th grade has been reading well above grade for a few years. He was reading harry potter in 2nd grade, we ran out of BOOKS for him at that school - the teenage books didn't really interest him, but there were no "younger" kid books at that level!
Its been a struggle to find things for him to read - he's on to the last of the harry potter books, and has a few Hardy boy books to read, but I am sure we are going to come to an end pretty soon and we'll have to find something else.....

 

[luvmychicknkids]

Quote:
Good luck. It just seems to get more challenging every year. But I am happy to have this "problem".

 

[Wildsky]

Quote:
Last year I actually had him read a few non-fiction books, his latest is Astronomy. But he has studied up on birds and animals of the area - as well as tree's etc. He knows EVERYTHING about Spider Monkeys - he LOVES them for some reason

I might try some history books this year - perhaps I can find some Fiction books based on History. I also need to get him into geography as well.

 

[Backyard Buddies]

I can see both sides of this issue. Like your son, I was also a voracious reader. As a third grader, I went through the entire book list through the 8th grade level in our school and went on to read additional books on my own with school guidance. I loved to read and I comprehended what I read. I do not know what level I tested, but I'm sure it was probably comparable to your son's. Beyond elementary school I continued to love reading and minored in literature in college.

I am a strong supporter of public education, having worked in media/marketing education for 12 years. In the course of my job working with educators, both in the classroom and at the level of curriculum development, including at the state level, I also learned a bit about standardized testing. First, a range between 5.6 and 12.8 is too broad to tell you much of anything. As with any standardized testing, just because a child tests at a 9th grade level, does not mean that he can do 9th grade work. It simply means that were a 9th grader to take the same test that your 5th grader took, they would get the same score. If you were to take that 5th grader and put them in the 9th grade classroom, it would not in any way guarantee that they could perform at the 9th grade level. I hope that explanation makes sense.

However, as supportive as I am of public education, I also think that No Child Left Behind has some serious flaws, namely that learning is too test focused rather than learning focused. I also believe that as a parent, I want to have more control over what is being taught to my children. California public schools are too experimental for my taste (I saw the entire Whole Language debacle from the ground) and wanted more than my local school would provide. Thus, my children attend private, Christian schools with higher academic levels than what is available through our public school.

I also have a 5th grade child as well as an 8th grader. While both are wonderful readers, I am careful that what they read meets both their academic level as well as their emotional and maturity level. I am the same way when it comes to television and movies. Thus, if the subject matter is one that I'd allow them to watch, then it's OK to read as well. I realize that your values and standards may be different than mine, and that's OK. However, as for me, I feel that many kids are growing up a bit too fast these days and it certainly doesn't hurt to let them be kids for just a little bit longer. There are plenty of classic books out there that allow for both. However, you are his parent and you make the decisions about what he reads, but do recognize that you may have to separate that from what he reads at school for credit if this issue cannot be resolved.

Have you asked the librarian which books she would recommend? I realize that may not be acceptable to your son, but sometimes it can help your cause for him to sit down with her and share his interests and engage her in the process of helping him find something he'd enjoy.

 

[luvmychicknkids]

The main issue I have is, these are NOT books he is having to read for credit. He had all the points required for the first 9 weeks in the first 3 days of school. He can now read whatever he wants whether he can test on it or not. Yes, I understand about the broad range in his reading level...however, the lower level really has nothing to do with his ability, it is the LOWEST they will allow him to read. A book they have rated as a 5.4, he would not be allowed to test on and receive points. I don't think they are allowed to set his lowest level far above his actual grade, which is why there is such a discrepancy in the numbers. For most children the numbers are closer together. His actual reading ability...both reading and comprehension, is a 12.8, according to the school. In reality he reads as well as any secure reading adult and is able to comprehend everything he reads. Most important, this has nothing to do with his overalll academic ability (I KNOW he would be lost in a 12th grade classroom) this is reading ONLY.

None of this was even an issue until he started Middle School this year anyway. In Elementary they knew us, and knew us WELL. While the library didn't have much he wanted to read, our Librarian (who was previously my two younger sons Kindergarten teacher) would do everything possible to help him find more mature level books in their library. The new Librarian just simply does not know us. My main issue really is not just with her refusing this particular series of books but the combination of this and the initial argument he had over a Tale of Two Cities and her comment that he was too young and could not understand it. I do not feel that is her right or her place to determine, especially when she has the information available that he is reading at a 12.8 level. That combined with this made me want to beat my head on a wall. There are too many kids out there who are brilliant and have parents who have no clue they are. They have parents who would never fight the school to let them read something and probably don't own a single book at home. They will, unfortunately, continue to be refused the right to read what they want.

I guess my thoughts are, if you have a good kid, one who never causes trouble, is respectful, and very bright, let the kid read what he wants. As I said before, if he happens across mature content he doesn't understand he brings the book to me and we discuss it....problem solved. Gives me a perfect opportunity to reinforce my values.

 

[HSmamma]

Wow-lots of points to consider here. I am speaking from our own experiences with public school and some of the things I've learned or educated myself on.
Having a son who was in special education and now homeschooling (and a daughter in public school at one time) we were left with nothing but frustration.
I am not bashing public school as both of my kids had some excellent teachers and some not so good. You will find that in any profession. I see it in nursing. Homeschooling was not our first choice-in fact, I very panicky about the whole thing. But I've learned a lot. My working one on one with my kids I now know them. I thought I did before, but I was seriously mistaken.
In working with my son I discovered that his learning disabilities aren't disabilities at all and I should have never allowed him to be placed in such a program. They wanted to hold him back a grade twice and I wouldn't let them. Yes, I wouldn't let them. He learns completely differently than any child I've met. Don't they all? We are entering our 3rd year of homeschooling and I can't ever imagine sending my kids back to PS.

there was one comment made:

In my opinion, we should do away with A-E(F) letter grades and test the kids on what exactly they know how to do.

This confuses me greatly. How can you test someone on exactly what they know if you don't know what that is? I think that perhaps you are speaking of grade level expectations otherwise every single child would have a different test and that does not occur in PS. Why test them if they already know it?
I don't test. I don't grade. We work on something until the skill is mastered. If it takes 6 minutes or 6 weeks so be it. We learn for mastery and I am well aware of what my kids know and don't know by speaking with them. Unfortunately, PS does not afford that luxury. My kids work at all different grade levels. My son does grade level math, reads (and Comprehends) at at high school level, does highschool science and is a full grade ahead in everything else.
But back to the books, censoring books is never a good idea. Maturity levels will vary by kids as will comprehension and yes it is up to the parents to discern readiness.
Public schools are responsible to the parents (that's why school committee meetings are open and report cards are sent back to the parents and there are parent teacher conferences.) But all too often, teachers and parents in public school do not see each other as partners in the childrens education.
Homeschooling is not a luxury for us...it's a choice as it is for most parents. Some cannot homeschool or don't want to. That's also their choice. Some parents are involved, others are hands off but no one should be grouped in one category.
But as a homeschooling parent I have the time to explain to my children about things they read they might be questionable. It's all around them, books, media, movies etc. But obviously, life comes with some discretion. They will hear it ,see it and read it. I don't stop them but make sure they understand about what they are reading, and the consequences of those actions. My kids now feel safe enough to come to me and ask very hard and embarrassing questions. Parenting is tough-we all try the very best we can with what is given to us. We all try to do what is best for the kids.
hsmamma​

 

[I have WHAT in my yard?]

This is a great thread! Education should be the number one priority of any civilized nation. Yet, here in the U.S. it is fractious and uneven at best. As a college teacher I see all the results.

I see the kids who had excellent public schools who are bright and well rounded.

I see the kids who went to public hell holes filled with dedicated overworked underpaid teachers who struggled every day with parents and neighborhoods, gangs, and drugs. (Yes, I know more than one teacher who was hit and/or threatened by parents for a child's bad grade or discipline!)

I see homeschooled kids who have wonderful classic educations who have been taught HOW to think and are wonderful people for it.

I also see homeschooled kids who have been so indoctrinated in one perspective that they are handicapped at the college level and baffled by the larger world.

With a system that is funded at the local level and monitored at the federal level there is an inherent inability to connect. The schools are not at all the same. One school I went to visit had a laptop for every incoming high school freshman. One had two computers for every 60 students. One had a beautiful cafeteria with gourmet food. One had rats actually strolling down the halls next to the students! (No, I am NOT exaggerating!)

There is not enough money in the world to persuade me to teach in the public school system as it exists now. But, I send my kids to public school and live in a high school tax neighborhood and stay involved! Its not the schools that are at fault - it is the entire system that needs to be changed. When we value all children and teachers become some of the highest paid professionals, THEN I'll believe we're serious about education.

 

[sred98]

I want to respond, I haven't read all the posts, but when I was younger, I was in a similar situation. Part of the reason they wouldn't let me check out older books, was since I was so young, they were afraid I wouldn't take care of them. But, I was 1st grade, checking out 6th grade, so quite a bit younger than your son. Once I showed the maturity, they had no problem with it. If he is in 5th grade, how high does your school go, or are you in a smaller district that shares a library with the HS? I am just curious, because here, our schools only go up to 5th grade, then they go to Middle School. If they are afraid of content, then why is it in the school? If your kid is reading on that level, they should let him. Period.

Good Luck. Try and talk to the principal or administrator.

Shelly

 

[Buff Hooligans]

There's always the public library system. Let the school do what it wants. You've got lots of other options.