Cesar millan v. clicker training

[Jamie_Dog_Trainer]

Quote:
IMO clicker work and what Cesar does cannot be compared at all. Clicker work is shaping a dogs behavior prior to the dog knowing the behavior (generally speaking...no such thing as a hard and fast rule in dog training). Cesar takes dogs that already have an esablished negative behavior and he works with the dog to over come the behavior by showing the dog another way of dealing with stress and stimulation.


I am a trainer and behavior consultant. I have rehabed some pretty naughty dogs, and I have trained many good dogs to be better.

 

[greathorse]

Nice thought and I agree with you.

We all need to remember that Cesar nearly always is working with dogs that have been taught very bad behavior by pet owners that have no control and in general foster very annoying behavior. I would guess what we see from him on TV is modified considerably from what he would do in a more natural setting. He would not be a big "Star Trainer" if what he demonstrates wasn't fairly dramatic.

Again I am not a "disciple" of his or any other method, but I do think there are things that we can learn from nearly anyone if we pay close attention.

I will again state "my opinion" that he is not "stupid"

 

[OccamsTazer]

I'm with you guys on Cesar and what he deals with. He's not really a trainer, IMO, he works with disfunctional families and helps them to get their priorities straight.

I used to hear so often from clients, "Oh, his problem is that he thinks he's a person!"
(me thinking: no dear, his problem is that *you* think he is a person)

Or the uglier variation, "He just doesn't like black people, I guess my dog is racist!"
(me thinking: no dear, your dog doesn't care but you obviously have a problem)

Cesar has an amazing intuition with dogs. I've seen just about every episode of his show, and I've never seen him force a dog into an alpha roll. I have seen him guide a dog into a submissive position, but the dog was going willingly already.
I've also seen him have that very discussion with owners who were missing the subtleties and trying to force an unwilling dog onto its back.

Jamie, I've been meaning to pick your brain for awhile

Got any favorite literature about canine behavior you can recommend? I'm always looking to expand my dog bookshelf, and I've been in a bit of a reading rut lately.

 

[FireTigeris]

I was a puppy raiser for SEGI once- I might do it again when my son is old enough to want a dog and old enough to handle a dog.

We could not use treat/bait training except for the one command '(name) come' this is because come is such an important command that it needs to be followed instantly, after the puppy was 3 months we were to discontinue treats for come (out trainer's preference to allow treats at all).

Each command is given once, and only once then the dog is guided into compliance - then praised physically and verbally till 4-6 months then mostly just verbal.

These were all great dogs but I was clearly doing something differently- some of the dogs broke- (Jack didn't)... it was strange to me because leash corrections are allowed/encouraged but nothing else...

I wonder still what happened.

 

[bagendhens]

OT omg occamstazer? you worked with NG singers?
one canine id LOVE to work with, though the African painteds are my faves so far!

 

[yoker]

Quote:
I totally agree with you.

yoker wrote:
What are your opinions?
What do you think about Cesar?

I personaly like clicker training better.
IMO clicker work and what Cesar does cannot be compared at all. Clicker work is shaping a dogs behavior prior to the dog knowing the behavior (generally speaking...no such thing as a hard and fast rule in dog training). Cesar takes dogs that already have an esablished negative behavior and he works with the dog to over come the behavior by showing the dog another way of dealing with stress and stimulation.


I am a trainer and behavior consultant. I have rehabed some pretty naughty dogs, and I have trained many good dogs to be better.

Yes that is also what I think. What Cesar does is for dogs that have a problem and clicker training is for teaching new things.​

 

[RabbitMage]

Quote:
And when a dog in a real pack objects to being rolled, it bites the face of the dog rolling it. So when a person rolls a dog and the dog objects...

 

[NewToFarming]

I think the type of training depends on the type of dog & type of behavior you are correcting. I currently have two very strong headed breeds but they are very different. I would never do and never had to do any type of roll on my Chow. It just doesn’t work with him. With him I needed to earn his respect as the leader and he will do anything I want him to do. He even has great recall and for a Chow, this is one of the hardest things. He just knows he needs to do what I want him to do and he doesn’t argue. Now the Bulldog on the other hand is like a tee’d off gladiator looking for war almost 24/7 so he needed a whole different approach which included the forceful “down position”, time outs, everything! Clicker training would not work for my Bulldog because strange noises like that set him over the deep end. He was a rescue with a questionable past. So, I really think it depends on the dog and what works for them and yes if one doesn’t work, you need to move on to another approach.

 

[cassie]

The two methods are not mutually exclusive. I use both. And to the person who called Cesar an idiot, I suggest that person pay a lot more attention to how dogs interact with each other. Cesar interacts with the dogs in much like the same way they interact with each other. It is a language they understand. A dog pack is not a democracy on any level.

 

[scbatz33]

I enjoy Caesar. I have watched almost all the shows and I agree with his technique. I have used several of his methods on my dogs and had amazing results in the hard issues. Especially with dominance and territorial behaviors.

Victoria Stidwell, while her methods are good, I personally find her presentation annoying. Also her "cases" are on a different level than the dogs that I've seen on Caesar's show.

I've read tons of books and watched tons of videos and had plenty of experience with my own dogs, for me the clicker training seems inadequate. Maybe it's because all of my dogs, save the last one, have been grown and needed "untraining" more than training but it's just not a method I find useful.

Caesar, and Victoria, to a lesser degree are working with owners who either haven't a clue or are plain incompetent in their dog ownership. They show people who have taken on animals they have no clue how to deal with, like another poster mentioned - my dog thinks he's a person type of mentality. It's not the dogs that need fixing - 9 times out of ten, it's the people.

Caesar helps dogs get back to being dogs and relates to them in a "language" they understand. However, his title is a misnomer. As the "dog whisperer" - he's not talking to the dog and the dog "magically understands(any more than Monte Roberts was the "horse whisperer). He is LISTENING to dogs and relating to them in terms they understand.