Chantecler Thread!

[RiddleMe]

I have to admit I am finding the discussion of the proper partridge coloration very interesting, but oh boy am I glad I decided to go with the White!! My hatch of shipped eggs was a little disappointing, 13 eggs developed, but 6 of them died after internally pipping. I think it was due to a combination of saddle cell and mal-positioning of the chicks, they just weren't able to get in position to externally pip. I don't normally assist with a hatch, so by the time I realized I might need to it was already too late. But I have 7 healthy chicks in the brooder, 5 popped right out day 21 and the other two on day 22, so I can at least get a feel for the breed.

 

[Northie]

I've got this feeling like something just flew over my head.... Like way over my head.... Lol.

 

[CanuckBock]

I have to admit I am finding the discussion of the proper partridge coloration very interesting, but oh boy am I glad I decided to go with the White!! My hatch of shipped eggs was a little disappointing, 13 eggs developed, but 6 of them died after internally pipping. I think it was due to a combination of saddle cell and mal-positioning of the chicks, they just weren't able to get in position to externally pip. I don't normally assist with a hatch, so by the time I realized I might need to it was already too late. But I have 7 healthy chicks in the brooder, 5 popped right out day 21 and the other two on day 22, so I can at least get a feel for the breed.

And under those Whites...you could have some decent Partridges lurking...waiting to be uncovered, when or if you wanted to play with the Parti ones!

I have a strain of Partridge Chants that has a single dose of recessive White (makes the top coat on the males POP...as per Dr. Carefoot's studies) and every so often I get a White sport. The rec white comes from the recent crossing in modern times of the Oka Chanteclers used to save what was left of the abandoned Albertans (now gone extinct).

I've got this feeling like something just flew over my head.... Like way over my head.... Lol.

So long as nothing landed like bird plops...yer good my Dear!

Tara

 

[Chantecler7]

I have to admit I am finding the discussion of the proper partridge coloration very interesting, but oh boy am I glad I decided to go with the White!!

Yes, and that is exactly what I was afraid of. This conversation has probably turned more than one potential breeder of partridge away from them. So I'm going to end my part of this with just a few short observations. First, you don't learn everything from books and on the internet. In fact the internet allows for the spread of misinformation with practically the speed of light. Second, until you start going to shows and talking with the licensed judges, you are not going to know much about their priorities - and they can be quite different among even experienced judges. The president of the American bantam association, a very experienced breeder who has judged all over the continent, has said the standard does not specify the exact width of penciling. It can be heavier or thinner, and not many folks will care one way or the other. It is not the big deal some have made it out to be. Next, the number of folks who will choose to double mate are very few and far between. Not all of us are fanatics about minor points, and we still manage to win our share. You can check out exhibitors points at the website of the American Poultry Association. (They are listed alphabetically.) There are far more important issues to deal with in poultry breeding. In summary, and this will be my final words here on the subject, I truly hope that readers will give the partridge variety a try. They are not exactly the same as the whites, and the buffs are a little different yet. I have raised, shown, and won with all three in both large fowl and bantam sizes. The partridge have the advantage of keeping a cleaner appearance than the whites, and with their coloring would tend to be more predator proof than the whites. The whites probably have the fastest maturity and a slight edge for egg laying ability. All three are very nice examples of how beautiful and useful a so called heritage breed can be. If you are looking for sources of stock, you will find some at the breeders directory link of http://chanteclerfanciersinternational.org/ . Happy hatching!

 

[Northie]

I'd like to eventually keep all 3 varieties of chantecler. I'm starting with partridge and I don't know if I'll ever get to the point where I'll have show quality birds but that's OK. I wanted to keep a heritage breed that would be a good dual purpose bird for our family and stand a chance at being hardy enough to survive our truly brutal winters.
On that note, how do you guys manage winters with your birds? My husband refuses to believe that our chickens could survive our winters in an unheated coop. He's going to be building me a heated one so I guess I shouldn't fuss too much but, part of the reasons I chose the birds I did was for winter hardiness....

 

[insanity]

I use a heated coop because we have extended periods where 0 F is the high. The biggest problem is you CAN"T lose power during cold snaps. If the birds aren't acclimated the sudden cold would be very bad. If power outages are an issue in your area a generator is a good idea.

 

[Chantecler7]

Don't forget ventilation. It is important the birds get fresh air, as the ammonia can really build up during the winter months without frequent cleaning. My Chants survive just fine in an unheated coop, and we get down to 30F below (outside temp) at times. Survive and lay.

 

[toofarout]

I provide some heat in my little barn. One heatlamp for the chickens and one heatlamp for goats. Still, most of winter even with switching out the water every 12 hours (starting with very warm nearly hot water) the water is partially or totally frozen.
But I'm not only in Interior Alaska, but in a valley behind a ridge that blocks what tiny bit of light there might be for nearly 4 months a year.
So it's really really cold.
The thing with providing heat and the worry of the power going out ...
The heat lamps somewhat warm up the bedding, the walls, the ceiling, the wood shell, not just the animals.
This residual heat slows down the cooling off when our temps. really drop, and if the power went out gives a little buffer before it gets too cold.
Without any heat, I think if there were any live chickens come Spring, they would all be so badly frostbitten that they would have to be killed.
So, you really need to know your own climate and weather and the housing your animals are in.

 

[Northie]

We get periods of -30'c to -40'c in the winter with wind chills that make it even uglier. We run a portage and main wood boiler system for heat in our house and garage so the plan was to run a loop of heated pipe through the coop too. I'm still figuring things out right now but I figured we'd need at the very least a heated water source.

 

[CanuckBock]

How bad is it having some amount of smut in a buff chantecler's tail? Can it be bred out? Is *any* amount a bad thing? What if there is smut in tail of pullet, but it molts out?
How can it be gotten rid of?
I had thought that the smut was *all* gone once the girls molted that first time, but I'm pretty sure I'm seeing some still in a few of them.
Honestly, it doesn't bother *me*, (winter hardiness, health, and egg production and temperament are more important to me), but if it is bad according to the standard I need to know this.
Thanks,
from Sue

I lean towards that concept that the females may have a bit more black markings in their tail in later years. I see the opposite to what you are seeing I believe in yours...I see sometimes it become more pronounced as a female ages.

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Look at Chantelle and you will note in this early photo...barely any black but in the one I posted in the thread above, she now has much more pronounced dots of black in her tail feathers.


The self-Buff variety is a very simply explained variety...

Not easy to achieve but at least easy to explain what is wanted!

Males and females are to be "an even shade of rich golden buff" where the males have luster in "head, neck, hackle, back, wing bows and saddle showing greater luster. Females only have some luster in the hackle. Undercolour on both is to be "matching surface as near as possible." So you go from surface of feather on into the down wanting an even buff.

Now when it comes to defaults on the self-buff or what they call "Buff (solid)"...it ranges from a maximum of 2 to 1/2 a point in cuts...not a big deal if the entry is small but in heavy competition in large exhibited chicken entries...the difference of 1 to 2 points can mean the bottom of the pile from the top and what bird goes Best/Reserve in the entire Breed. So it goes when showing chickens in the popular large entered show classes.

Defects to receive a cut for solid Buffs are explained to be; mealiness, light shafting, black or white, unevenness of colour and slate in undercolor.


Beware some have put dom white in the Buff and for some reason I have yet to figure (maybe thinking "I" as in dominant white will bleach out any black miscolours--not sure?)...dom white is there but not expressed in the usual fashion one would expect. A single dose of dom white should make Red Pyles (should do this in a single dose!) but it does not in some of the Buffs. Might figure it out one day I guess but for now...I just know what chickens are throwing the off colours.

Also watch in the Buffs for white in the earlobes (not wanted) as I have heard some complain about it in the unrecognized Buff variety of the Chants. NEVER EVER used a male with white in the lobes is the advice we are given...sometimes a hen may get very pale earlobes from extended laying or not enough time in some sunshine...but never use a male with white for breeding is what some of the oldtimers say. I believe this "white" probably has historic links back to the influx of Leghorn into the breed since Leghorns have white earlobes.

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This male above threw this female and male below and looking back at the sire above...you can SEE light/sorta white in the wing bows...and some white miscolours in the tail feathers.

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Female, not a great expression of Red Pyle but expressed as per comparable photos Grant Brereton has published his publication 21st Century Poultry Breeding.

Male, again not a great expression of Red Pyle.
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This is what the young'uns looked like; a motley crew of buff and white with some lacings.​

How terrible miscolours are depends on you the breeder. You may always take a Red Pyle and work towards making them an all White bird (though we should know that an all black bird makes the best of the exhibition Whites with rec & dom white and white enhancers added--red pigments are more leaky than black pigments in a White bird).

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Under this exhibition line of bantam White Wyandottes of ours, I bred them for five years to see what was under this self-white...there is barring/cuckoo, blue dilution, autosomal red, gold and silver, pencilling and lacing, and recessive white (NO dom white) all based on eb Brown in the e-series. It is a little frightening at first when you have rainbows of COLOURS pop out from under WHITE feathered birds and kind of kewl too once you begin studying the reasons for this. By studying the genetics written in books by authors like Sigrid, Brereton, Dr. Carefoot, Reeder, and other Greats...then you become a lot more comfortable in understanding all White birds are some form of Coloured birds under that White.

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All these "rainbow" birds above came out from under the White!​

The White variety is a wonderful thing to salvage a line of otherwise decent birds because if you have breed shape and a bunch of attributes you like in the birds, then you have only to make them a self-White variety to make the line a recognized one and BINGO...you are back in the biz of having fully SOP compliant Chants--if that is one of your goals.

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This male is what is often called BLAFF (blue and buff) and his tail would be BLACK if not for the presence of a single dose of blue dilution. Since he has black (diluted to a blue colour) in his tail, I would NOT use him on the off side of a pen with Buff hens that had black in their tails...I would not want black on both sides of the mating. If the objective is an even buff in the progeny.

Fear is often based in not knowing something. Our initial reactions are to be overwhelmed and afraid...when you begin learning the real truths and start to understand complex things like colour genetics and the inheritance of chickeny characteristics...that is what sets you free so you may rise up above the darkness and see beauty and enjoy the freedom of enlightenment. It requires effort in an investment in yourself. This is your choice to learn if there are those willing to offer up conversations and photos in an attempt to teach you. Willing students and willing teachers...win / win situations! Never mind the role reversals when students teach the teachers...har har har!

When you do begin to get a grasp on genetic inheritance...you start really progressing quite quickly. The learning curve lessens. I wish all breeders of poultry were taught a foundation in genetics and more studied the dusty historical texts. How else can you sit down with someone like the great Dr. Clive Carefoot and have a little chat together. He is dead...but his words and wisdoms live onwards in his book; Creative Poultry Breeding is his eternal living legacy that any one of us may access and learn from.

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I often set up poster and stuffy critter displays at schools, poultry shows when I am asked to judge, and even sales to educate the general public about our fabulous hobby. Information on offer to tweak their interest in this life long endeavour!

I have taught over 500 Biology students locally here at the high schools. Teaching them canine colour genetics by bringing in two of my dogs.

Makins and HyBlade in school teaching kids genetics​

Not a single student has failed their Biology exams after attending one of my presentations...goes to show you what can be done with combining LIVE furry puppies and raw hard core genetics, eh?

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In our poultry youth exhibition club...we use Punnett Squares to teach seven year olds how blue dilution is inherited. Make it fun and watch them gobble it up!

How can someone be afraid of plushy ducks and making a game outta Punnett Squares to teach blue dilution? There is no fear in messing with blocks and playing with TOYS and learning by doing. So many ways to learn and so many ways to teach. The sky is the limit for sure!

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Wubber ducks to teach gender inheritance in poultry and Lego blocks (nfi) in Easter eggs to teach genotype (genetics) and phenotype (looks). Lots of us learn things by having our hands on and messing with theoretical concepts in the flesh.

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Finger painting to learn about primary colours and build upon that to compliment plus or minus modifiers and dilutions in the making of bird plumage colours. Learning something can be a dirty job, eh...gotta get your hands dirty...or is that just yer fingers as in finger painting!

This Fancy is as complex as you want it to be...and it serves the community as a whole to offer up discussions in the more intricate and refined topics such as the "royalty of the showpen" and the finer points in the Partridge variety. What any person is not able to absorb will sit there and wait...wait for when they are up to the task to attempt that level or never--that is by their own choice. Far better to offer it up than to pretend that it does not exist and that somehow this hobby cannot challenge those of us with decades invested in it.

People on BYC are quite capable of deciding to participate or not at whatever level they are comfortable with. The sheer beauty of places like the Net allow for people to discuss intricate topics like the finer points in varieties in real time backed up with whatever proof they want to support their hypothesis with. Hiding or pretending the complexities don't exist does everyone a disservice, especially the birds themselves. People here are not stupid and I tire of seeing topics dumbed down because, well you might scare them with reality. Reality is the hobby is broad enough for all to be welcomed...whatever their intensity level and whatever their skill levels currently are. At one time the home flock was a commonality like common sense.

All I have ever seen by not educating people is regret and unfounded fear. Being able to sell inferior quality birds to newbies because they do not know any different does not seem to be doing the Fancy any good. Every spot should be occupied with decent quality birds so that every flock even if they are meant to be eaten (save them by eating them) has people that understand good birds versus mediocre birds. Over time the quality of the poultry HAS to improve if people are educated in the selection process to know good from bad and establish their flocks in an educated fashion to suit their particular needs. Better birds = better hobby for all to enjoy.

I don't recall there being a welcome mat laid out that read only easy subjects and topics were allowed here.

Doggone & Chicken UP!

Tara Lee Higgins
Higgins Rat Ranch Conservation Farm, Alberta, Canada