Here is a post from another forum. This fellow is from the Netherlands, hence the language differences. But note especially the last two sentences. 'Nuff said.
Berend
Bantam
Registered: 08/24/12
Posts: 64
Loc: Nederland
Originally Posted By: Redcap
Really fascinating how fast You get Barnevelder "orange" double laced from wheaten quail over "silver pencilled"
Royal orange is populair in the Netherlands, overhere better not use it in chicks
There was obvious Ml in the wheatenquail, that's my luck.
Only Ml added to the the original multiple partridge strain, which is top quality for exhibition. Besides single mated for over 30 years, only used the males with black breast from the hens with the good multiple lacing, leads to winners in the Netherlands, Germany and on the European Shows the last 20 Years. There isn't better proof that double mating isn't necessary in Brahma partridge, but everyone is free to make his one choice.
BTW orange is created when the Silver Pencilled adds a single dose of dilute and non-autosomal red to the package...diluting & washing out the phaeomelanin to this "royal orange" instead of deep reddish bay which requires two doses of autosomal red on a gold base with Mahogany and NO dilute.
Nope, this information does nothing to support your incorrect claim to debunk the use of double mating in Partridge Chanteclers in order to make the best colour pattern expressions for exhibition purposes.
It still remains prudent to drop the pencilling and keep the hackle black to achieve the best colour pattern expression in the males for exhibition in the Partridge variety (Red & Black).
The title of the above post you are quoting from The Coop is DOUBLE LACED and when you view the photos and read the posts prior...you can see the F1 female that looks to be a "pseudo" partridge to the casual observer (photo is fuzzy and does not show the black edging well but black edged it IS) is really multi laced...the feather edges are still BLACK laced but not the usual width of edging--thinner. Yes, minute black edging because that is what Ml in a single dose may do in combination with eb and Pg. Reduce the last lacing on the feather edge to almost nothing...I expect one dose of Ml is there to explain the weak, thin expression of black lacing on the outer edge of the feather.
The examples used are double laced (as his title says) not pencilled and this discussion has no validity on Partridge pattern which does not have Ml since that would then make it multiple laced.
You are posting a statement about the use of "Ml" which indeed is quite correctly seen in Barnevelders and US Cornish Games both based upon eb in the e-series AND based upon eWh in the UK type Cornish/Indian Game (which also has cha). These breeds are expressing DOUBLE LACING (Mahogany Gold Black double laced) not PARTRIDGE of which my discussion was that double mating was required to produce superior birds from.
While the Brahmas are a quite a different breed from Chanteclers, persons such as Maurice C. Wallace, John Kriner, Sr., and even Murray do not say they double mate even though they did and do so. I can find many stating they do not "double mate" and yet...by their own words/actions, they most certainly DO.
DOUBLE MATING - AN OPPOSING VIEW
By John Miller Freeman:
They will tell you they do not "double mate" and yet they DO SO by their very own actions and admissions. Taking a son from "my best pencilled females" is double mating...period. Say what you want but a male out of the female exhibition bird IS the pullet breeder...like begets like and female pens make female birds for exhibition...vice versa on males. LOL
Melanotic is an extender of black. The difference between pencilled and double laced is the addition of MELANOTIC!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Back in 2009 I kindly advised you to purchase Sigrid's "Genetics of Chicken Colours" publication so that you might read and learn more about colour genetics. You told me you did not need to. I see an ongoing need if you want to continue discussions such as these. With no reference books to carry your theories on, there is no basis for you using it to apply to real life situations.
Feather patterns: Pencilled or multiple lacing, is eb Pg and Double laced is eb Pg PLUS Ml.
Last I looked a the Partridge Chantecler, we were not making Dark Cornish and the DARK Brahma is a silver pencilled (opposite of partridge which is GOLD pencilled). Plus or minus modifiers keep the crisp sharp edge and in multi laced, recessive blacks also assist in the depth of eumelanin. Difference between Dark Cornish and Barnevelders is due to the e-series which results in a darker ground colour with deeper black lacings...Cornish is based upon eWh Wheaten and Barnvelders is based upon eb Brown.
I have created a line of Partridge Bantam Brahmas (why? because I can!) and had this F1 female's photograph looked at by Rico, a sanctioned APA judge. I agree with his comments that she has too light a ground colour when she was a pullet.
Here is Bea...her ground colour has progressively gotten darker as she has aged and thankfully, her thigh feathers came in firmer...much too soft in her pullet year!
Left, Bea as a pullet / Bea as a hen
Often in the Silver Penciled, there is no autosomal red and Di for dilute which explains why there is a single dose of dilute in Bea which is acceptable in the UK partridge but I prefer a darker groundcolour in my parti female birds.
I think what makes me realize how fast we are losing the decent information is when you have several copies of the SOP's in your possession...different years. Go to the APA SOP 1998 and look upon the retouched photograph of Schillings' (page 78) Dark Brahma male. NOTE...upper thigh just below where his wing folds and the saddle feathers meet...that junction shows explicitly white laced feathers...no words in the SOP of course mention this except for "Lower Thighs -- black." but does anyone GET that this white lacing in the UPPER THIGH is there...not mentioned at all and many who study the SOP's realize that it is JUST as important to note what is not STATED...
Heh heh heh....so to the casual observer, if we go by the words...yuppers...LOWER thigh is to be BLACK but what of the UPPER thigh????? Now if you go to the APA SOP 2010 and view the cartoon drawing of the Dark Brahma male on page 86...well golly...l00k at what has been lost in the transition from REAL air brushed photo to more the latest updated drawing...black thigh both upper and lower and middle...GONE GONE GONE is the white laced feathers! By allowing this smidgen of lacing in the male for exhibition, a decent enough pencilled female may be made by the one pen breeders...decent but not exquisite like the Dark Brahma pullet breeders that have some white in their black chests.
So slowly but surely the wisdom is being lost even for the one penner breeders and you know...when you get comments about "scaring off" people by telling them the full up truth and key components required...that these varieties ARE difficult and intricate...it is very simple to see why all these nuggets of truth are being lost...faster than ever it seems. I will keep talking about the intricate details and the art of making birds of class but I won't live forever either. Wherever these items are no longer valued, I suppose the quality of exhibition poultry will find some low place to settle out at. ..sadly at the expense of what was once a very refined and intricate expression of the breeders' art, knowledge, and sheer dumb luck on a good day the girls humour and bless us with.
In summary...I welcome you to learn by doing. Go ahead please, and add Melanotic to the North American Partridge Chantecler. The ending result when homozygous, will be a multiple/double laced as in NA DARK CORNISH...one of the original breeds Bro W used in the foundation of the White Chantecler. Reinvention of spinning wheels...going backwards--full tilt & fast!
If ever there was a valid example of what knowing the past history of your breed means in poultry breeding...suggesting that one add melanotic has to be the c@tz meow in lessons one should not have to revisit regarding the Partridge Chantecler.
Doggone & Chicken UP!
Tara Lee Higgins
Higgins Rat Ranch Conservation Farm, Alberta, Canada
I'm going to try to keep the big picture in mind. 
