Chantecler Thread!

[RiddleMe]

How terrible miscolours are depends on you the breeder. You may always take a Red Pyle and work towards making them an all White bird (though we should know that an all black bird makes the best of the exhibition Whites with rec & dom white and white enhancers added--red pigments are more leaky than black pigments in a White bird).

Under this exhibition line of bantam White Wyandottes of ours, I bred them for five years to see what was under this self-white...there is barring/cuckoo, blue dilution, autosomal red, gold and silver, pencilling and lacing, and recessive white (NO dom white) all based on eb Brown in the e-series. It is a little frightening at first when you have rainbows of COLOURS pop out from under WHITE feathered birds and kind of kewl too once you begin studying the reasons for this. By studying the genetics written in books by authors like Sigrid, Brereton, Dr. Carefoot, Reeder, and other Greats...then you become a lot more comfortable in understanding all White birds are some form of Coloured birds under that White.

Fear is often based in not knowing something. Our initial reactions are to be overwhelmed and afraid...when you begin learning the real truths and start to understand complex things like colour genetics and the inheritance of chickeny characteristics...that is what sets you free so you may rise up above the darkness and see beauty and enjoy the freedom of enlightenment. It requires effort in an investment in yourself. This is your choice to learn if there are those willing to offer up conversations and photos in an attempt to teach you. Willing students and willing teachers...win / win situations! Never mind the role reversals when students teach the teachers...har har har!

When you do begin to get a grasp on genetic inheritance...you start really progressing quite quickly. The learning curve lessens. I wish all breeders of poultry were taught a foundation in genetics and more studied the dusty historical texts. How else can you sit down with someone like the great Dr. Clive Carefoot and have a little chat together. He is dead...but his words and wisdoms live onwards in his book; Creative Poultry Breeding is his eternal living legacy that any one of us may access and learn from.

Edited for brevity

I found the bold part interesting, I hadn't really thought about that as I haven't spent a lot of time studying the white genetics, yet. But it explains why my chicks hatched with varying degrees of gray "smut" in their chick down and dark eyeliner.

I hope these discussions don't scare anyone off of the partridge variety, they haven't me. I took every genetics class I could in college, including graduate level classes, and have had a lot of fun learning about poultry genetics. I also have Russian Orloffs, but I figured for my first SOP recognized bird, I wanted to keep it simple so I could focus on "learning the barn" rather than being distracted by "the paint". At some point, I might branch into the partridge, as I think it's a beautiful pattern, but for now, I think I have my hands full enough.

 

[oshun55555]

Quote:

 

[skookumchuck]

Well my accidental barred Chanticleers are progressing nicely. Here is a few pictures now the are feathered out.



they are some of the biggest birds as well.









I wonder if they will breed true? I have 5 from this accidental cross almost temped to try again for some more. I like barred chickens

 

[GalaBoys]

I breed Partridge Chanteclers. I started with Whites, but it was difficult to obtain good stock to begin with, and frankly, white chickens are boring. The solution? The challenging Partridge Chantecler, of course!

Armed with a battery of genetics books and two VERY good mentors, along with some absolutely amazing birds that I was so fortunate to be able to obtain, I look forward to continuing to improve this variety of the great Canadian breed.

This is the old girl - foundation hen from this line.


This is not my best hen, but that hackle black will be very useful in producing exhibition males.


I do have more hens, but they were being camera shy when I was taking these.

I look forward to establishing my own line of stellar birds - and working towards a two-pen breeding program, as I love the look of a true exhibition male in this variety and breed.

 

[Chantecler7]

That last one is actually a pretty nice hen. Did you know the APA Canadian National will be in Red Deer Alberta this fall? CFI is sponsoring a Chantecler Meet at that show, and there will be some nice awards for the winners that are CFI members.

 

[GalaBoys]

I have very high standards.

Yes, I am aware of the national show. Hatching a few extras to take - crossing my fingers for good weather!

I am a CFI member.

 

[CanuckBock]

I found the bold part interesting, I hadn't really thought about that as I haven't spent a lot of time studying the white genetics, yet. But it explains why my chicks hatched with varying degrees of gray "smut" in their chick down and dark eyeliner.

I hope these discussions don't scare anyone off of the partridge variety, they haven't me. I took every genetics class I could in college, including graduate level classes, and have had a lot of fun learning about poultry genetics. I also have Russian Orloffs, but I figured for my first SOP recognized bird, I wanted to keep it simple so I could focus on "learning the barn" rather than being distracted by "the paint". At some point, I might branch into the partridge, as I think it's a beautiful pattern, but for now, I think I have my hands full enough.

When Andrè Auclair crossed the Oka Chantecler into what was left of the abandoned Albertans to fix the inbreeding depression and duck foot issues, the birds threw some Black sports. This is how Andrè created his Black variety in the Chanteclers. Obviously, there were "Black" birds under those Oka White Chants!

I am happy to hear you have lots of genetic instructions to rely on. Good for you!

If you think of chicken breeding in an apprenticeship way...the most logical choice to start would be to acquire three pairs of White Chanteclers, adult birds from a decent breeder...the classical "good start!"

Three hens for a breeding pen with any one of the three males and the other two males kept together to keep each other company. Switch males out over the breeding season if you like (can set eggs after removing a male till the incubated eggs candle clear to maintain pedigrees and add the new chosen male in that day for fertility likely the next egg made). Breed only from hens and cocks, adult birds since many issues will not crop up until the second year of life (twisted feather, head gear size, etc. plus ensuring you can observe the young birds moult, egg production, vigour, disease resistance by living to at least become an adult at your place, temperament, etc. ...you can even set a clutch of eggs under a pullet from a hen to make them whippersnapper chooks work their first year of life--hee hee...child labour violations?).

By choosing the White (or Black if you like) variety, you are not distracted by any pattern markings (good or bad or just distracting) and may easily learn to evaluate SHAPE and throw all our resources at it full force ("Here chickee chick...tossing the candy corns yer way")! With so few colour faults to worry about in the White original variety, indeed you will get to "learn the barn."<--kewl!

No matter the variety in the Chantecler, you should be selecting for the same kind of shape and general chickeny attributes in all colours and patterns...so all the varieties are the same breed shape. If you could set up a shadow box, the outline would be identical...take a photo and trace the outline of any of the variety...aim is to have identical good ol' bird birds. Sometimes when working on art, looking at it in a mirror gives on a whole new perspective...so a photo of yer birds, look at it in a mirror and sometimes the good and bad leap out because you have a new set of eyes...oh my eyes!

​

I hang a photocopy (in a sheet protector) of Schilings 1923 retouched photograph in all my coops where Chants reside and ahve allowed that image to be burned into my visions for perfection. I don't care this image has no pattern upon it or colour...I am after what I feel is the ideal SHAPE of the BREED. I do that with all my chicken breeds...Schilling has images for Wyandottes, Booteds, Brahmas...just ducky we are SO lucky he worked on so many breeds! Schillings works of ART!

Double mating has always been part of poultry exhibition since the first ever Standards were drafted. People's ideals for each gender did not always feature the concept that show bird bred to show bird should produce more of the same (often no "like begets like"). The people chose what they wanted and figured was the most beautiful and desired.

They were not making a breeding pen and keep this in mind...breeder birds are often NEVER show birds themselves since you can use a non-cushion combed chicken as a breeder in the Chants but cannot show that without having it DQ'd.

It is a rare bird indeed that as Dr. Carefoot labels, is a "bird of class" (both breeder and shower) and even he warns not to waste their greatness in the show ring in excess...use them to win at exhibitions sure if you must, but not too much and compromise their full breeding potentials for your own strain. I know to me a "total exclusive only show" bird would be an utter dud a.k.a. pet perhaps. I am more thrilled with breeder birds if I have to choose show or breeder. Of course I would love more birds of class, wouldn't we all! Because I see a future in the bird making better than themselves, breeders make me happier than sole show ones. This said, there are lots who only want to show their poultry, which is an art in itself.


David Scrivener's Exhibition Poultry Keeping, page 105, Double Mating:

This article gives a brief description of double mating versus single:
WHAT IS DOUBLE MATING?
Double-mating means the mating of two pens, one to produce exhibition cockerels and the other exhibition pullets. This process of breeding has done much to spoil many good old breeds, for few little men have accommodation sufficient to keep two pens. Many poultry fanciers give this double-mating question some hard knocks, but we have only the Club Standards to blame. When a new breed comes into being, the first desire of the faddists is to draw up a standard that is hard to breed to. They contend that it is better to have a breed that is difficult to obtain high-class specimens of, than where we can easily breed winners. As things are at present, double-mating is necessary in many breeds, and I leave it at that.

Double mating can be used to produce many items in poultry. The correct colour patterns (barred/cuckoo, partridge/black-red, silver in grey/duckwing/partridge, brown-red/birchen, silver or lemon blue, pyle, partridge/pencilled, autosomal barring & laced patterns), comb shape (the Leghorn comb over-female or no comb over-male...tee hee), plumage types (as in gender expressions where females should have tight feathers and males should have abundant feathers), put yellow feet on a black feathered chicken, or white ear lobes on black feathered birds.

Keep in mind that in gender alone, the male tends to be whiter than the female in plumage expression which means any pattern with white in it will be expressed more so in a male than a female, based solely on gender alone even with the genetic instructions being identical...so a sister and brother may look different (have a different phenotype) compared each other and still having the same set of identical genetic instructions (genotypes).

The APA accepted Single Comb Leghorns in the Brown variety into the SOP in 1874 and in 1923, split the cockerel and the pullet breeders into their respective varieties of Light and Dark. Same was done with the Rose Comb Brown Leghorns, acceptance year was 1883 and were divided into Lights and Darks in 1933. The two exhibition genders were SO incompatible that it was decided to make them complete and separate varieties. In some countries, breed varieties that were once requiring four pens (double mated) are also kept and now shown as two separate varieties so that people may purchase a pair of show birds and breed them together to make more of the same show birds.

And why yes, if you look fat in that outfit...you may certainly count on the likes of me to be honest to a fault and tell you that you "l00k fat" but I will also advise you may be to try the navy shade in a houndstooth pattern. That it is more becoming to your figure type! VBG

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Doggone & Chicken UP!

Tara Lee Higgins
Higgins Rat Ranch Conservation Farm, Alberta, Canada

 

[Northie]

It's really cool that you mentioned using a mirror to look at your artwork when you can't "see" it anymore! I do that with my paintings!

 

[Chantecler7]

Here is a post from another forum. This fellow is from the Netherlands, hence the language differences. But note especially the last two sentences. 'Nuff said.


Berend

Bantam

Registered: 08/24/12
Posts: 64
Loc: Nederland
Originally Posted By: Redcap
Really fascinating how fast You get Barnevelder "orange" double laced from wheaten quail over "silver pencilled"


Royal orange is populair in the Netherlands, overhere better not use it in chicks

There was obvious Ml in the wheatenquail, that's my luck.
Only Ml added to the the original multiple partridge strain, which is top quality for exhibition. Besides single mated for over 30 years, only used the males with black breast from the hens with the good multiple lacing, leads to winners in the Netherlands, Germany and on the European Shows the last 20 Years. There isn't better proof that double mating isn't necessary in Brahma partridge, but everyone is free to make his one choice.

 

[Candy442]

Posting a 7 wk photo of the buff Chantecler chicks I picked up