They are very pretty!
Here are the Chanteclers I picked up from Cirrus Hill Farm in Ontario. So far so good, I probably should have gotten 5 more and a roosters while there but live and learn!
Chantecler Thread!
- Thread starter Chickenrandomness
- Start date
No regrets! I think you have a fine opportunity to go look now for a nice PAIR of Chants! Fall time and you should be able to find someone with grown up birds ready for their forever home.
Use the male you acquire on your current five females (he should be unrelated and add some nice healthy diversity to your beginning flock!) and unless you are told the female in the pair is unrelated (breedable) to the male you acquire...you can always keep her back as a spare for breeding to the next generation your new future roo and five females produce!
I'd say
Tara as always your birds are all so beautiful! I wish I lived closer so I could just come have coffee with you and admire your beauties!
You are always so kind to people CD...
Well I suppose we can always have a virtual coffee here on BYC and chat chooks too!
Tara
Tara,
I am not so sure why you are focused on my saying the question was "personal" - it was personal to me - my person and not meant to be asking for your trade secrets. Frankly, the "trade secrets" are all in the selection, as you say, and you are very free with your answers in that realm, so is there any true trade secret to reveal then? Again, I was just curious & am fine if you do not share the information.
I agree with Rhoderunner's perspective completely - it explains why I asked the question much better than I did.
I think the article by Dr Wilkinson in the 1935 Canadian Poultryman tells so much more than Greg Oake's article (it is one source used for that article) and it has a much better explanation of the breed and standard - which is not what you posted above (see CFI website articles). The information from the Glenbow Museum by Percival Timms (also on CFI). It is clear in that article that Dr Wilkinson was not initially aiming for recognition of a chicken breed with his name on it - he was looking for utility.
BTW, Dr Wilkinson died in 1936 - December 30, 1936. Yes close, but not quite 1937.
There is a picture of of a pair of Dr Wilkinson's birds that are being exported to England in the 9/30/1935 Lethbridge Herald (Alberta) for anyone who is interested.
I find all of the show references very interesting - can you list what shows they were at or did I miss the information?
Thanks again for all the information
Shel
(PS ... I have no intention of reviving the "Albertan" name ... Dr Wilkinson was ok with the Chantecler name for the breed and so am I)
I am not so sure why you are focused on my saying the question was "personal" - it was personal to me - my person and not meant to be asking for your trade secrets. Frankly, the "trade secrets" are all in the selection, as you say, and you are very free with your answers in that realm, so is there any true trade secret to reveal then? Again, I was just curious & am fine if you do not share the information.
I agree with Rhoderunner's perspective completely - it explains why I asked the question much better than I did.
I think the article by Dr Wilkinson in the 1935 Canadian Poultryman tells so much more than Greg Oake's article (it is one source used for that article) and it has a much better explanation of the breed and standard - which is not what you posted above (see CFI website articles). The information from the Glenbow Museum by Percival Timms (also on CFI). It is clear in that article that Dr Wilkinson was not initially aiming for recognition of a chicken breed with his name on it - he was looking for utility.
BTW, Dr Wilkinson died in 1936 - December 30, 1936. Yes close, but not quite 1937.
There is a picture of of a pair of Dr Wilkinson's birds that are being exported to England in the 9/30/1935 Lethbridge Herald (Alberta) for anyone who is interested.
I find all of the show references very interesting - can you list what shows they were at or did I miss the information?
Thanks again for all the information
Shel
(PS ... I have no intention of reviving the "Albertan" name ... Dr Wilkinson was ok with the Chantecler name for the breed and so am I)
Last edited:
Heel low:
The information on the CFI site (might wanna have Mike change your name as a contributor...it says "Sally??" unless there was a Sally that contributed these?) dated 1935 is about the Albertan breed being accepted as a variety of the Chantecler and lists the Standard for the Partridge variety of the Chantecler--not the ALBERTAN as a BREED. Dr. Wilkinson's intentions for his chicken named the "Albertan" are on the Standard I posted here on this thread and dated 1919. I will post it again below...this IS the most recent Standard that I have seen to exist for the breed of the Albertan.
Standard of Perfection - Albertan 1919:
Dan Honour stated that Dr. J.E. Wilkinson "died during the early part of January" so I cannot validate or dispute Dan's information as he is a highly respected poultry researcher. If he made an error, oh well, it needs to be corrected by a more reliable source. Your origin for this date of December 30, 1936 is?? Did he have an obituary? If you have that, might be of interest this group in seeing what it mentions, so posting it would be good.
As would the photograph of the pair of Albertans exported to England in September 30, 1935. Only a pair, eh...not much of a genetic foundation but better than none I suppose.
I am not at all concerned about the "Albertan" name being revived...one may call a chicken whatever they prefer unless you are entering it in a sanctioned show, then it has to be much more strict and proper or be disqualified as entered in the "wrong category."
My concerns are that the Albertan chicken breed that the Dentist created (see the above breed standard as of 1919) will be resurrected! That would be a huge and grave mistake and I won't knowingly assist anyone in achieving THAT endeavour. Yucky poo poo blah!
So people here know...the weights for the Chantecler breed have been altered from Bro W's original intentions. Published in the issue of the January 21, 1921 Canadian Poultry Review, the Association des Eleveurs de la Poule Canadian Chantecler stated the Chants were to be heavier than now...cocks at 9 pounds, hens at 7 , cockerels at 8, and pullets at 6.5 pounds
The 2010 APA SOP lists cocks at 8.5 pounds, hens at 6.5, cockerels at 7.5, and pullets at 5.5 pounds.
Some people even have cocks that are 12 pounds...not an entry that would be accepted at a sanctioned show, but certainly something remarkable to ponder when wondering what can be done with the Chantecler when someone puts their mind to it.
I continue to support Greg Oakes' accounts, articles and interpretations of the history of our chicken breeds. He is an astute researcher and has, in my opinion, spent WAY too many hours in dusty libraries squinting at microfiches. Greg Oakes deserves respect, admiration, and extreme thankfulness for his ongoing generosity with his authentic valid finds and accounts of the Chantecler. I have spoken with him personally and find his version of the truth to be exquisitely accurate and supported by documentation and other just as credible sources.
In support of Greg's awesome article...Hurtin' Albertan...read this quote carefully....
Linda M. Gryner on the Partridge Chanteclers, 1996, page 48:
Greg (and obviously others), has the opinion that Dr. Wilkinson was not pleased to have his Albertan chicken breed officially recognized as the "Partridge variety of the Chantecler" chicken breed. I have yet to see any historical documentation that states otherwise. Going to his grave as a beaten man is quite the statement, eh?
Anyhoo, enough on that downer...
When people are inspired to write poems that sing the virtues of a chicken breed...one has to stand up and acknowledge that the love of the Chantecler chicken breed is more than just about a bird that gives a plentiful, quality supply of winter eggs and meat for our tables. The Chantecler is more than just a bird...she is a monumental representation for a people...Canadian people with many cultures, dialects and dreams. May she live long and continue to prosper under adversity...my ever beloved CANUCK BOCK!
Dr. R.E. Rochon of Clarence Creek, Ontario, Canada - January 1919
Published in Poultry Guide of the Citizen and translated by the editor, Horance S. Higgs.
Note...back then in 1919...Canada was a DOMINION (July 1, 1867, officially being the "Dominion of Canada" and became a country in 1982 as an independent nation know as Canada--"the Village" to those of us idiotic enough to wanna live it up in the Great White North).
The placard sign held up by the marching Chanteclers...translated to English..."The day of glory has arrived!"
In places like Quebec where the country folk have quietly been keeping this breed alive and well for decades upon decades as part of their family traditions--an inheritance of sorts! The Chantecler is simply considered just another accepted icon of rural life. As one of my one good friends in the Belle Province states, "We have the birds." And indeed, those simple sentiments are remarkably true. We DO have the birds and what birds they be!
Yeh...that Chantecler does indeed have history with its country of origin...a great and ongoing history we all may be right proud of. Chicken UP proud!
Doggone & Chicken UP!
Tara Lee Higgins
Higgins Rat Ranch Conservation Farm, Alberta, Canada
The information on the CFI site (might wanna have Mike change your name as a contributor...it says "Sally??" unless there was a Sally that contributed these?) dated 1935 is about the Albertan breed being accepted as a variety of the Chantecler and lists the Standard for the Partridge variety of the Chantecler--not the ALBERTAN as a BREED. Dr. Wilkinson's intentions for his chicken named the "Albertan" are on the Standard I posted here on this thread and dated 1919. I will post it again below...this IS the most recent Standard that I have seen to exist for the breed of the Albertan.
Standard of Perfection - Albertan 1919:
Dan Honour stated that Dr. J.E. Wilkinson "died during the early part of January" so I cannot validate or dispute Dan's information as he is a highly respected poultry researcher. If he made an error, oh well, it needs to be corrected by a more reliable source. Your origin for this date of December 30, 1936 is?? Did he have an obituary? If you have that, might be of interest this group in seeing what it mentions, so posting it would be good.
As would the photograph of the pair of Albertans exported to England in September 30, 1935. Only a pair, eh...not much of a genetic foundation but better than none I suppose.
I am not at all concerned about the "Albertan" name being revived...one may call a chicken whatever they prefer unless you are entering it in a sanctioned show, then it has to be much more strict and proper or be disqualified as entered in the "wrong category."
My concerns are that the Albertan chicken breed that the Dentist created (see the above breed standard as of 1919) will be resurrected! That would be a huge and grave mistake and I won't knowingly assist anyone in achieving THAT endeavour. Yucky poo poo blah!
So people here know...the weights for the Chantecler breed have been altered from Bro W's original intentions. Published in the issue of the January 21, 1921 Canadian Poultry Review, the Association des Eleveurs de la Poule Canadian Chantecler stated the Chants were to be heavier than now...cocks at 9 pounds, hens at 7 , cockerels at 8, and pullets at 6.5 pounds
The 2010 APA SOP lists cocks at 8.5 pounds, hens at 6.5, cockerels at 7.5, and pullets at 5.5 pounds.
Some people even have cocks that are 12 pounds...not an entry that would be accepted at a sanctioned show, but certainly something remarkable to ponder when wondering what can be done with the Chantecler when someone puts their mind to it.
I continue to support Greg Oakes' accounts, articles and interpretations of the history of our chicken breeds. He is an astute researcher and has, in my opinion, spent WAY too many hours in dusty libraries squinting at microfiches. Greg Oakes deserves respect, admiration, and extreme thankfulness for his ongoing generosity with his authentic valid finds and accounts of the Chantecler. I have spoken with him personally and find his version of the truth to be exquisitely accurate and supported by documentation and other just as credible sources.
In support of Greg's awesome article...Hurtin' Albertan...read this quote carefully....
Linda M. Gryner on the Partridge Chanteclers, 1996, page 48:
Greg (and obviously others), has the opinion that Dr. Wilkinson was not pleased to have his Albertan chicken breed officially recognized as the "Partridge variety of the Chantecler" chicken breed. I have yet to see any historical documentation that states otherwise. Going to his grave as a beaten man is quite the statement, eh?
Anyhoo, enough on that downer...
When people are inspired to write poems that sing the virtues of a chicken breed...one has to stand up and acknowledge that the love of the Chantecler chicken breed is more than just about a bird that gives a plentiful, quality supply of winter eggs and meat for our tables. The Chantecler is more than just a bird...she is a monumental representation for a people...Canadian people with many cultures, dialects and dreams. May she live long and continue to prosper under adversity...my ever beloved CANUCK BOCK!
Dr. R.E. Rochon of Clarence Creek, Ontario, Canada - January 1919
Published in Poultry Guide of the Citizen and translated by the editor, Horance S. Higgs.
Note...back then in 1919...Canada was a DOMINION (July 1, 1867, officially being the "Dominion of Canada" and became a country in 1982 as an independent nation know as Canada--"the Village" to those of us idiotic enough to wanna live it up in the Great White North).
The placard sign held up by the marching Chanteclers...translated to English..."The day of glory has arrived!"
In places like Quebec where the country folk have quietly been keeping this breed alive and well for decades upon decades as part of their family traditions--an inheritance of sorts! The Chantecler is simply considered just another accepted icon of rural life. As one of my one good friends in the Belle Province states, "We have the birds." And indeed, those simple sentiments are remarkably true. We DO have the birds and what birds they be!
Yeh...that Chantecler does indeed have history with its country of origin...a great and ongoing history we all may be right proud of. Chicken UP proud!
Doggone & Chicken UP!
Tara Lee Higgins
Higgins Rat Ranch Conservation Farm, Alberta, Canada
Tara,
Yes, Mike sometimes refers to me as Sally for some reason - having the information available to other people interested in the breed is what matters.
Here is one copy of Dr Wilkinson's Obituary <a href="http://www.newspapers.com/image/48453261"><img src="http://img.newspapers.com/img/thumbnail/48453261/400/400.jpg" alt=""/></a> None of them say much. I hope others can access this - I have a paid subscription to newspapers.com.
Regardless of what Linda Gryner or Greg Oakes say, here is Dr Wilkinson's OWN WORDS about the name change which cannot be disputed "While disappointing, there is much that is logical in this action of the American Poultry Association, in harmony with the principle of requiring definite distinction of breed characteristics with any further introductions". (Canadian Poultryman 1935). That sounds like acceptance to me - in opposition of what has been reported elsewhere. I did ask Linda Gryner where she obtained her information that has been spread so far and wide on how Dr Wilkinson was "beaten" and am still waiting for an answer. I do appreciate the work and leads they put forth for curious people, such as myself (especially to Greg Oakes for his reference to the Canadian Poultryman article and his kind emails to me). I guess I just do not believe everything that is put in an article somewhere as it is the author's impression of the material.
Furthermore, Dr Wilkinson clearly states "At the beginning there was no thought of anything like admission to the American Standard ..." and "The sole object and all considerations were utilitarian." (in article from Canadian Poultryman 1935).
Lethbridge Herald article http://newspaperarchive.com/ca/alberta/lethbridge/lethbridge-herald/1935/09-30/page-7
I still have questions on the accuracy of the Albertan "standard" you posted. If you read the article in Canadian Poultryman by Dr Wilkinson, it does not say anything near what you posted nor is it what is in the SOP.
Some may ask why I did the research ... because there is little information on the "heritage" of the Partridge Chantecler and I find history fascinating. Since I am interested in conservation, I wanted to see what there was to conserve and why the PC was created. What I found was fascinating and somewhat different than has been reported in the few reference articles that are out there. To me, the Canadian Poultryman article is the most significant find as it outlines what Dr Wilkinson's goals were (not the SOP's).
I still have leads to follow and many hours ahead of me in more dusty library archives and plan to willingly share whatever I find that is interesting.
Shel
(PS ... there is a lot of fashion and other references based on the "Chantecler" book by Rostrand and play based on the book that was so popular at the time our breed was created and named)
Yes, Mike sometimes refers to me as Sally for some reason - having the information available to other people interested in the breed is what matters.
Here is one copy of Dr Wilkinson's Obituary <a href="http://www.newspapers.com/image/48453261"><img src="http://img.newspapers.com/img/thumbnail/48453261/400/400.jpg" alt=""/></a> None of them say much. I hope others can access this - I have a paid subscription to newspapers.com.
Regardless of what Linda Gryner or Greg Oakes say, here is Dr Wilkinson's OWN WORDS about the name change which cannot be disputed "While disappointing, there is much that is logical in this action of the American Poultry Association, in harmony with the principle of requiring definite distinction of breed characteristics with any further introductions". (Canadian Poultryman 1935). That sounds like acceptance to me - in opposition of what has been reported elsewhere. I did ask Linda Gryner where she obtained her information that has been spread so far and wide on how Dr Wilkinson was "beaten" and am still waiting for an answer. I do appreciate the work and leads they put forth for curious people, such as myself (especially to Greg Oakes for his reference to the Canadian Poultryman article and his kind emails to me). I guess I just do not believe everything that is put in an article somewhere as it is the author's impression of the material.
Furthermore, Dr Wilkinson clearly states "At the beginning there was no thought of anything like admission to the American Standard ..." and "The sole object and all considerations were utilitarian." (in article from Canadian Poultryman 1935).
Lethbridge Herald article http://newspaperarchive.com/ca/alberta/lethbridge/lethbridge-herald/1935/09-30/page-7
I still have questions on the accuracy of the Albertan "standard" you posted. If you read the article in Canadian Poultryman by Dr Wilkinson, it does not say anything near what you posted nor is it what is in the SOP.
Some may ask why I did the research ... because there is little information on the "heritage" of the Partridge Chantecler and I find history fascinating. Since I am interested in conservation, I wanted to see what there was to conserve and why the PC was created. What I found was fascinating and somewhat different than has been reported in the few reference articles that are out there. To me, the Canadian Poultryman article is the most significant find as it outlines what Dr Wilkinson's goals were (not the SOP's).
I still have leads to follow and many hours ahead of me in more dusty library archives and plan to willingly share whatever I find that is interesting.
Shel
(PS ... there is a lot of fashion and other references based on the "Chantecler" book by Rostrand and play based on the book that was so popular at the time our breed was created and named)
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Any opinions as to the differences between the original (white) Chantecler and the "Albertan" Partridge Chantecler which I understand is not really a particularly direct descendant of the original though many of the same breeds were crossed to create it. I did not realize this when I got them figuring it was just a different and more interesting color/pattern.
I got 2 Partridge Chanteclers as day olds June 2012. One died mysteriously March 2014. She had been laying 1 egg every three days since mid Feb, laid an egg 2 days prior and was fine at 8 AM, dead, no marks or obvious issues at 11 AM. Both go/went broody a lot. The one that died laid well (other than when/after being broody) until 10/11/13 when she started her first moult. She didn't lay again until mid Feb, died on 3/10. The other lays well until she goes broody, then nada until about a week after she breaks (no rooster here) in the broody buster that sits on the roosts. She is the ONLY chicken I have that laid right through the winter. Last egg before moult: 7/1/13, first egg after moult: 8/28/13. She would be a good hen if she didn't go broody so often. Even with the broody issue, she has laid 48% since her first egg (the other PC was 38%), better than all but 2 of my original 12. Compare that to one of my Black Australorps at 58%, which didn't moult until the last week of January!! and laid until then, (the other at 44%) and one of the EEs at 59% (the other at 45%). Neither of the higher %age layers has ever gone broody which helps, but the other EE didn't either. My Anconas have never gone broody but they take off 3 months+ for moult so are in the low 40%. My Faverolles go broody all the time and also take off a lot for moult. One did well except for Jan this year, the other didn't do a thing from early Oct/13 until mid Feb/14.
The broodiness of the one good PC layer wouldn't be such a big problem if I could "replenish the flock" here and she could hatch her own but my daughter is an emotional vegetarian and will not eat an egg that has been fertilized (even if collected and eaten before it could start to develop AT ALL) thus no rooster and no animal she "knows" personally will be eaten by us or anyone else so what to do with the 50% of the offspring that are male?
If nothing else, it is fair to say that individual birds do not follow the "breed traits". Since I've had only 2 each of 6 breeds, I have no real "averages" to use. With that in mind, the question, in peoples' experience:
Are the White Chanteclers as likely to go broody as the Partridge? When it comes time to add more chickens (as I'm getting on average 1 egg a day now from ten 2.5 year old hens (mostly from the 1 PC!), I am considering more chicks for next year), I want:
1) good egg layer
2) does not go broody
3) lays through the winter
Does the White PC fit that bill better than the Partridge?
Thanks!
I got 2 Partridge Chanteclers as day olds June 2012. One died mysteriously March 2014. She had been laying 1 egg every three days since mid Feb, laid an egg 2 days prior and was fine at 8 AM, dead, no marks or obvious issues at 11 AM. Both go/went broody a lot. The one that died laid well (other than when/after being broody) until 10/11/13 when she started her first moult. She didn't lay again until mid Feb, died on 3/10. The other lays well until she goes broody, then nada until about a week after she breaks (no rooster here) in the broody buster that sits on the roosts. She is the ONLY chicken I have that laid right through the winter. Last egg before moult: 7/1/13, first egg after moult: 8/28/13. She would be a good hen if she didn't go broody so often. Even with the broody issue, she has laid 48% since her first egg (the other PC was 38%), better than all but 2 of my original 12. Compare that to one of my Black Australorps at 58%, which didn't moult until the last week of January!! and laid until then, (the other at 44%) and one of the EEs at 59% (the other at 45%). Neither of the higher %age layers has ever gone broody which helps, but the other EE didn't either. My Anconas have never gone broody but they take off 3 months+ for moult so are in the low 40%. My Faverolles go broody all the time and also take off a lot for moult. One did well except for Jan this year, the other didn't do a thing from early Oct/13 until mid Feb/14.
The broodiness of the one good PC layer wouldn't be such a big problem if I could "replenish the flock" here and she could hatch her own but my daughter is an emotional vegetarian and will not eat an egg that has been fertilized (even if collected and eaten before it could start to develop AT ALL) thus no rooster and no animal she "knows" personally will be eaten by us or anyone else so what to do with the 50% of the offspring that are male?
If nothing else, it is fair to say that individual birds do not follow the "breed traits". Since I've had only 2 each of 6 breeds, I have no real "averages" to use. With that in mind, the question, in peoples' experience:
Are the White Chanteclers as likely to go broody as the Partridge? When it comes time to add more chickens (as I'm getting on average 1 egg a day now from ten 2.5 year old hens (mostly from the 1 PC!), I am considering more chicks for next year), I want:
1) good egg layer
2) does not go broody
3) lays through the winter
Does the White PC fit that bill better than the Partridge?
Thanks!
I have 1 buff chantecler. She is about 3 yrs old and still lays ok (3-4 a week) when she isn't broody. Unfortunately she has been broody most of the summer, she can't seem to get eggs to hatch and won't adopt either. Any ideas how to stop her or will she give it up eventually? I've tried broody buster cages, removing the "good" nest box, and about every old wives tail the local farmers have told me. Nothing slows her down. Is this a breed trait or is she just stubborn? Thanks for any info or ideas.
Whites are not well-known for broodiness - they have had that instinct bred out of them for the most part.
YIPEE! If I get some and they lay as well as my PC but don't go broody, they will be excellent birds for me.
I hatched three of my Chantecler pullet eggs and I have two pullets and one cockerel and I am very excited as their legs are more yellow than their parents.
I am posting pics of the three of them just 3 days short of a month old and their sire to compare the leg color to. Please let me know what you think.
Parents
pullet 1
pullet 2
cockerel
I am posting pics of the three of them just 3 days short of a month old and their sire to compare the leg color to. Please let me know what you think.
Parents
pullet 1
pullet 2
cockerel
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