Chick with badly twisted leg WARNING *Picture Heavy!

[krysvollmer]

This was the best I could get! She is still pretty wiggly!

 

[krysvollmer]

Oh dear.  It sounds like it could be a twisted tibia or perhaps a slipped tendon.  Can you take close up photos of her leg and the position?  Maybe from different angles?  That may help us figure out what's going on.  So sorry!

Wish it were better circumstances, but welcome to the peafowl forum!    We'll do what we can to help!

I am trying to post photos but it is not letting me from my phone! I will try to upload them from my computer!

 

[krysvollmer]

these are the best photos I could get of this little chick. its her right leg that twists all the way around and it looks like she is puttig all her weight on the left leg and it is now bowing out. I felt for the tendon and could not feel anything so I am thinking it is not a slipped tendon. I tried to brace her for spraddle leg the other day and the leg just kept twisting as she moved. She can still get around she is just really wobbly and unstable. To me it looks like it is twisting at the top of the leg instead of the knee.

 

[Garden Peas]

Wow, lots of feathers on that chick! Let's see if we can figure this out. @casportpony , what do you think of these photos? @KsKingBee , can you look at this also? Kathy had posted this website earlier, which has a lot of good info to help: https://sites.google.com/a/poultrypedia.com/poultrypedia/poultry-podiatry

@krysvollmer , look at the photo numbered #14 in your pictures. The bird is upside down and we can see the two hock joints.

This is a different bird (one of my peachicks) -- in this photo, you can see the hock joint.

When you look at the hock joint from this angle (easier to see on the bird, hard to see in photos), there is a tendon that stretches from the upper part of the leg, down the back of the hock joint, and down into the lower part of the leg. As the joint opens and closes (as the leg flexes), that tendon lengthens and shortens. It stays in place down the back of the hock joint because there are bony ridges on either side of the tendon, which create a groove that the tendon sits and rides in as it lengthens and shortens. The groove holds it in line. Sometimes the tendon jumps out of that groove -- the tendon will slip to the inside of the joint, taking a shortcut around the corner. You can see it most easily by comparing the two hock joints, if one is slipped out and the other is not.

If the tendon has slipped out, the chick cannot extend (straighten) that joint by itself, and the leg collapses at that joint when the chick tries to put weight on it. When the tendon is not in the groove, the joint just closes up like a little hinge. That is what we call a slipped tendon.

The other two big possibilities are a splayed leg -- perhaps in this case from a dislocation at the joint above (not the hock joint), or possibly a twisted tibia -- the bone itself twists around (it essentially rotates or develops a "twist" around the long axis of the bone. Usually with a twisted tibia, if you watch the chicks carefully, you start seeing the center big toe rotate -- get planted at a direction other than 12:00 (straight ahead) when the chick is walking. So one foot will point straight ahead, and the other will be pointed somewhat off to one side. Over a course of a few days, that foot may start pointing out at more and more of a diagonal as the long bone develops a twisting malformation. Because chicks grow really fast, it can change quite a bit in a few days, and sometimes it isn't noticed until the foot is already pointing backwards instead of forward, so it seems to come on more suddenly than perhaps really happens. It can also get combined with dislocation, which will definitely cause an immediate worsening.

The other thing I'm thinking -- particularly in this case -- is that perhaps the joint above became dislocated through some injury, and the leg won't bear weight because that higher up joint is dislocated. That's a little different from the splayed leg that day old chicks get. I don't know how to fix that joint if it is actually dislocated -- I would suggest vet assistance with that one. Maybe you could post pictures if the vet gives you good advice with it.

My first recommendation is to get professional vet help whenever possible. That's what vets do -- and I appreciate the amount of learning it takes to become proficient at it.

My suspicion (and I really can't tell from the photos), is that your chick has some higher up dislocation. But go through and make sure it isn't a slipped tendon. (Also remember that lots of leg problems can end up co-occurring, as one injury inadvertently sets up another...)

I am afraid this hasn't been very much help. If it is strictly a twisted tibia, and there hasn't been a dislocation, there's a treatment for that, but it takes awhile and isn't always successful. I have a bird that is an adult with a twisted tibia -- he manages successfully, but is lame and walks with difficulty. He is five years old, and I expect he will have a shorter lifespan than typical for peas. He also cannot run fast enough to catch up with the hens during breeding season, which probably bothers him a lot more than it bothers the hens! He is fairly unusual, as most birds with uncorrected twisted tibias don't survive, as far as I know.

See if this helps you figure it out. Again, if you have access to a vet, that's a good way to go. If it's a twisted tibia, we can direct you to threads on how to treat that. The thread on how to fix slipped tendons is already listed higher up in this one. If it's dislocated up higher -- I don't know how to treat that, but perhaps someone else does?

Best of luck with your chick!

 

[dandkadams]

Poor baby we couldn't get it right.
He grew up and I tried and tried but it just kept going farther out of line.
We ended up putting him down when he started getting too big and seemed to be in pain.

Thanks to Everyone for trying to help!
I really appreciate it!

 

[krysvollmer]

Wow, lots of feathers on that chick! Let's see if we can figure this out. @casportpony , what do you think of these photos? @KsKingBee , can you look at this also? Kathy had posted this website earlier, which has a lot of good info to help: https://sites.google.com/a/poultrypedia.com/poultrypedia/poultry-podiatry @krysvollmer , look at the photo numbered #14 in your pictures. The bird is upside down and we can see the two hock joints.

This is a different bird (one of my peachicks) -- in this photo, you can see the hock joint.

When you look at the hock joint from this angle (easier to see on the bird, hard to see in photos), there is a tendon that stretches from the upper part of the leg, down the back of the hock joint, and down into the lower part of the leg. As the joint opens and closes (as the leg flexes), that tendon lengthens and shortens. It stays in place down the back of the hock joint because there are bony ridges on either side of the tendon, which create a groove that the tendon sits and rides in as it lengthens and shortens. The groove holds it in line. Sometimes the tendon jumps out of that groove -- the tendon will slip to the inside of the joint, taking a shortcut around the corner. You can see it most easily by comparing the two hock joints, if one is slipped out and the other is not. If the tendon has slipped out, the chick cannot extend (straighten) that joint by itself, and the leg collapses at that joint when the chick tries to put weight on it. When the tendon is not in the groove, the joint just closes up like a little hinge. That is what we call a slipped tendon. The other two big possibilities are a splayed leg -- perhaps in this case from a dislocation at the joint above (not the hock joint), or possibly a twisted tibia -- the bone itself twists around (it essentially rotates or develops a "twist" around the long axis of the bone. Usually with a twisted tibia, if you watch the chicks carefully, you start seeing the center big toe rotate -- get planted at a direction other than 12:00 (straight ahead) when the chick is walking. So one foot will point straight ahead, and the other will be pointed somewhat off to one side. Over a course of a few days, that foot may start pointing out at more and more of a diagonal as the long bone develops a twisting malformation. Because chicks grow really fast, it can change quite a bit in a few days, and sometimes it isn't noticed until the foot is already pointing backwards instead of forward, so it seems to come on more suddenly than perhaps really happens. It can also get combined with dislocation, which will definitely cause an immediate worsening. The other thing I'm thinking -- particularly in this case -- is that perhaps the joint above became dislocated through some injury, and the leg won't bear weight because that higher up joint is dislocated. That's a little different from the splayed leg that day old chicks get. I don't know how to fix that joint if it is actually dislocated -- I would suggest vet assistance with that one. Maybe you could post pictures if the vet gives you good advice with it. My first recommendation is to get professional vet help whenever possible. That's what vets do -- and I appreciate the amount of learning it takes to become proficient at it. My suspicion (and I really can't tell from the photos), is that your chick has some higher up dislocation. But go through and make sure it isn't a slipped tendon. (Also remember that lots of leg problems can end up co-occurring, as one injury inadvertently sets up another...) I am afraid this hasn't been very much help. If it is strictly a twisted tibia, and there hasn't been a dislocation, there's a treatment for that, but it takes awhile and isn't always successful. I have a bird that is an adult with a twisted tibia -- he manages successfully, but is lame and walks with difficulty. He is five years old, and I expect he will have a shorter lifespan than typical for peas. He also cannot run fast enough to catch up with the hens during breeding season, which probably bothers him a lot more than it bothers the hens! He is fairly unusual, as most birds with uncorrected twisted tibias don't survive, as far as I know. See if this helps you figure it out. Again, if you have access to a vet, that's a good way to go. If it's a twisted tibia, we can direct you to threads on how to treat that. The thread on how to fix slipped tendons is already listed higher up in this one. If it's dislocated up higher -- I don't know how to treat that, but perhaps someone else does? Best of luck with your chick!

thanks for the advice! I will see what I can figure out!

 

[Garden Peas]

@krysvollmer , if it is simply a twisted tibia, and the joint is not dislocated, you may be able to straighten it back out -- though it is a fairly long-term project. Here is a link to the treatment that @thndrdancr gave her bird, which fixed it:

https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/941270/slipped-tendon-that-turned-to-twisted-tibia-my-treatment

@DylansMom has also successfully treated birds with twisted tibias, so perhaps she can also look at the photos and give some advice.

Good luck! Hope it works out.

 

[Garden Peas]

Poor baby we couldn't get it right.
He grew up and I tried and tried but it just kept going farther out of line.
We ended up putting him down when he started getting too big and seemed to be in pain.

Thanks to Everyone for trying to help!
I really appreciate it!

@dandkadams , I am so sorry to hear about your bird. It sounds as though you did the right thing for him and made the right (hard!) decision. I know you tried really hard. Sadly, we can't save them all.

Do you still have other birds? There's a really active bunch of us over on the peafowl forum here on BYC.

Best,
GP

 

[krysvollmer]

@krysvollmer
, if it is simply a twisted tibia, and the joint is not dislocated, you may be able to straighten it back out -- though it is a fairly long-term project.  Here is a link to the treatment that @thndrdancr
gave her bird, which fixed it:

https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/941270/slipped-tendon-that-turned-to-twisted-tibia-my-treatment

@DylansMom
has also successfully treated birds with twisted tibias, so perhaps she can also look at the photos and give some advice.

Good luck!  Hope it works out.   

so I have her braced for the twisted tibia, should I take it off I the morning? Or leave it for a few days? Also she hops around for a minute and then falls over on her side and just lays there. I have secluded from the other chicks and she has access to both water and food. For whatever reason I cannot find a forum about this with chickens and realized the other day the was a peafowl forum. So thank you for all the advice you have given me even though she is a chicken!

 

[Garden Peas]

so I have her braced for the twisted tibia, should I take it off I the morning? Or leave it for a few days? Also she hops around for a minute and then falls over on her side and just lays there. I have secluded from the other chicks and she has access to both water and food. For whatever reason I cannot find a forum about this with chickens and realized the other day the was a peafowl forum. So thank you for all the advice you have given me even though she is a chicken!

I think @thndrdancr was taping at night -- I'd have to re-read the thread. Not sure how @DylansMom did it, her bird(s) were younger than the one that thndrdancr was treating. I'm hoping they will chime in here and give you some pointers, because I haven't successfully treated a bird for twisted tibia, but they both have

Good luck -- sounds like you are doing the right thing!