Chicken Breeds Health Problems

[NatJ]

I also want to point out that those feathers come in handy on feet where i am too. I have some poor clean legged birds that have fractions of their toes left and most of the lucky ones are missing at least a toenail.

My birds with feathered legs and feet have never lost so much as a toenail to the cold.

That is very interesting! I've wondered if feathered feet stay warmer, but I've never seen any actual information until now.

(I have never had a chicken lose a toe, comb, or anything else to frostbite, so I wasn't in a position to make comparisons. I've mostly avoided feathered feet, because I hate them being muddy, and I've dealt more with muddy conditions than with extreme cold.)

 

[CoconutCoffee]

I've never thought feathered legs can act as good insulation. Discussions like this make me want to read more about chicken breeding history. Much like NatJ, I've never had an issue with frostbite. We'll get cold nights (in the teens) sometimes but it's mostly in the 20s/30s. It's 41 today but sunny so I still have chickens outside dust and sunbathing.

 

[JacinLarkwell]

I've never thought feathered legs can act as good insulation. Discussions like this make me want to read more about chicken breeding history. Much like NatJ, I've never had an issue with frostbite. We'll get cold nights (in the teens) sometimes but it's mostly in the 20s/30s. It's 41 today but sunny so I still have chickens outside dust and sunbathing.

Ill have to get pictures of my severe case (missing joints), missing toenails, and then my 8 year old hen with perfect feet. She is older than all of my clean legged birds with damage

 

[3KillerBs]

The breeds with feathers on the legs are also not completely free from suffering, they scratch around less,

No one ever told the Brahma in my avatar that she's limited in her ability to scratch.

She's one of the most enthusiastic excavators in the flock and able to dig a hole deep enough to sink to the level of her back in a single afternoon.

The real issue with feather-footed breeds is that the feathers collect mud and thus they are not well suited to locations with heavy, clay soil.

Neither large single combs nor small, close combs are wrong -- the former is a hot weather adaptation, the latter a cold weather adaptation. (Strangely, Brahmas are heat tolerant -- up to a point -- as well as cold tolerant. I suspect because their thick feathers insulate them from the outside temperatures regardless of what extreme it is).

 

[kwik-kwak]

No one ever told the Brahma in my avatar that she's limited in her ability to scratch.

She's one of the most enthusiastic excavators in the flock and able to dig a hole deep enough to sink to the level of her back in a single afternoon.

The real issue with feather-footed breeds is that the feathers collect mud and thus they are not well suited to locations with heavy, clay soil.

Neither large single combs nor small, close combs are wrong -- the former is a hot weather adaptation, the latter a cold weather adaptation. (Strangely, Brahmas are heat tolerant -- up to a point -- as well as cold tolerant. I suspect because their thick feathers insulate them from the outside temperatures regardless of what extreme it is).

I had already expected a bit that this topic would go in the direction that everyone will tell how wonderfully healthy their individual is. This is just not really my point, not every individual will suffer from these problems but it is a fact that genetic abnormalities are bred in animals. Eventually things like this go from bad to worse and then the way back is very difficult (just look at the purebred dogs).

As I mentioned earlier, the beaver legs are the least of the problems. Breeding hens too short, which causes them to have problems with egg production, is worse, that just doesn't seem right to me, so I sincerely wonder why this happens. The same applies to the targeted breeding of an open skull or damaged ear canals.
Oh yes I don't need to hear now that someone has a serama, crested or araucana who is completely healthy, I believe you, count yourself lucky but the problem remains in general. There are also people who smoke all their lives and drink a lot of alcohol who live to be 90, but that does not make it healthy in general.

 

[3KillerBs]

I had already expected a bit that this topic would go in the direction that everyone will tell how wonderfully healthy their individual is. This is just not really my point, not every individual will suffer from these problems but it is a fact that genetic abnormalities are bred in animals. Eventually things like this go from bad to worse and then the way back is very difficult (just look at the purebred dogs).

As I mentioned earlier, the beaver legs are the least of the problems. Breeding hens too short, which causes them to have problems with egg production, is worse, that just doesn't seem right to me, so I sincerely wonder why this happens. The same applies to the targeted breeding of an open skull or damaged ear canals.
Oh yes I don't need to hear now that someone has a serama, crested or araucana who is completely healthy, I believe you, count yourself lucky but the problem remains in general. There are also people who smoke all their lives and drink a lot of alcohol who live to be 90, but that does not make it healthy in general.

It seems to me that you are defining "problems" very broadly and completely ignoring fitness to certain environments and certain management systems.

Feathered legs/feet are a VERY old genetic traits -- all the way back to the "4-winged" non-avian dinosaurs. That the trait persisted and/or reappeared in some types of avian dinosaur shows and has been maintained in chickens for many centuries shows that it can't possibly be as horrible as you're making it out to be.

 

[kwik-kwak]

It seems to me that you are defining "problems" very broadly and completely ignoring fitness to certain environments and certain management systems.

Feathered legs/feet are a VERY old genetic traits -- all the way back to the "4-winged" non-avian dinosaurs. That the trait persisted and/or reappeared in some types of avian dinosaur shows and has been maintained in chickens for many centuries shows that it can't possibly be as horrible as you're making it out to be.

I take it quite broadly indeed and I know that I can be a bit extreme when it comes to animal welfare. With regard to the feathered legs, I wanted to indicate that I have read that scratching feels less pleasant because the feathers then bend the wrong way and that there is an increased chance of mites. It may have been a natural mutation from a long time ago, I have no experience with these types of chickens myself. Maybe the feathered legs aren't completely 'bad', I don't know enough about that.

So my main concern is that people consciously breed strange shapes in chickens because it is seen as beautiful. This mainly concerns the show breeds (truly never knew that chickens were shown).

Breeding for certain circumstances is a separate aspect for me, animals are often not suffering from it, but it does increase their comfort. Although I think we should always try to avoid extreme selection and small gene pools.

 

[3KillerBs]

I have read that scratching feels less pleasant

If that were true then my feather-footed breeds wouldn't be digging. The plural of "anecdote" is not "data", but if scratching were unpleasant for my Brahma, Langshans, Marans, and Cochin there wouldn't be so many ankle-twisting holes in my run.

It's important not to anthropomorphize and not to project HUMAN perception onto animals.

Birds are not people. They are not even *mammals*. We need to respect their nature as what they are.

 

[kwik-kwak]

It's important not to anthropomorphize and not to project HUMAN perception onto animals.

Birds are not people. They are not even *mammals*. We need to respect their nature as what they are.

What exactly do you mean by this? You mean I humanize them by talking about feelings of pain and discomfort?

Or do you mean the people who breed to breed standards based on appearance?

 

[3KillerBs]

What exactly do you mean by this? You mean I humanize them by talking about feelings of pain and discomfort?

Or do you mean the people who breed to breed standards based on appearance?

Anthropomorphize -- projecting human thought patterns and concerns onto animals.

Chickens are chickens, not people. They don't think the way we do. They think like chickens and should be respected as the unique creatures that they are -- complete with their own senses, perceptions, instincts and social structures -- rather than be thought of as little people in feathers.