Chicken Genetics

[tadkerson]

Cuckoo can carry the gold allele ( gold cuckoo) or the silver allele ( silver cuckoo). Normally the cuckoos carry a melanizer that adds enough black to the hackles etc. that the silver or red does not express itself (leak) in the hackles etc. So yes the red or white is hiding under the black; this is called hypostatic. Golden cuckoo marans are black coppers with cuckoo barring. Black/barred cuckoos should be extended black at the E locus but they could be birchen ( like a black copper). Either way they (cuckoos) would need melanizers to insure that the gold or silver does not show in their plumage. Black cuckoo to black cuckoo will produce black cuckoo. Black cuckoo to blue cuckoo will produce blue cuckoo birds and black cuckoo birds. Tim

Quote:

 

[Arielle]

Cuckoo can carry the gold allele ( gold cuckoo) or the silver allele ( silver cuckoo). Normally the cuckoos carry a melanizer that adds enough black to the hackles etc. that the silver or red does not express itself (leak) in the hackles etc. So yes the red or white is hiding under the black; this is called hypostatic. Golden cuckoo marans are black coppers with cuckoo barring. Black/barred cuckoos should be extended black at the E locus but they could be birchen ( like a black copper). Either way they (cuckoos) would need melanizers to insure that the gold or silver does not show in their plumage. Black cuckoo to black cuckoo will produce black cuckoo. Black cuckoo to blue cuckoo will produce blue cuckoo birds and black cuckoo birds. Tim

Quote: Tim, WHY is the gold leaking and how do I cover it up again. Is the gold "normal" and just needs a little covering up?

 

[Arielle]

So, for example, if I have a blue marans with very little cuckoo in his hackles and they should be silver based.... maybe this rooster is the KEY to fixing gold leakage What do you think? Should I only keep the SILVER based ones??

So If the gold is leaking,then they don't have the genes to HIDE it so maybe I should not use them because of that??

What are the genes that hide the silver or the gold??

 

[Henk69]

That would be the melanizers, eg hackle black, charcoal, melanotic etc...

 

[tadkerson]

When I write black in this post, I am referring to base black not a black chicken.
With cuckoos, it does not make any difference if they are gold or silver. Males show a non-black color when females of the same genotype (same genetic makeup) do not show the non black color; the females are self (solid) black. That is the biggest problem with crossing blacks. What you have to do is select for males that show the least amount of non-black and cross them with a black female. Keep track of the eggs and which chick hatches from which cross. This way any male offspring that expresses a large amount of non-black in the hackles can be used to determine if a hen should not be used for breeding. Females that are totally black can produce males that express non-black in the hackles. Always select for males that have the least amount of non-black and cross them with females that have produced males with smaller amounts of non-black. Once you get a male that is totally black, then breed him to a sister or a tested female ( most likely his mother). You should get some black birds from the cross. Remember the key to producing good blacks is knowing a female produces good black males. By tested female I mean a female that has consistently produced black females and produced males that do not express non black or expressed very little no-black.


Tim

 

[Arielle]

That would be the melanizers, eg hackle black, charcoal, melanotic etc...

THanks Henk.

Sounds like there is more than one at work.

 

[Arielle]

When I write black in this post, I am referring to base black not a black chicken. With cuckoos, it does not make any difference if they are gold or silver. Males show a non-black color when females of the same genotype (same genetic makeup) do not show the non black color; the females are self (solid) black. That is the biggest problem with crossing blacks. What you have to do is select for males that show the least amount of non-black and cross them with a black female. Keep track of the eggs and which chick hatches from which cross. This way any male offspring that expresses a large amount of non-black in the hackles can be used to determine if a hen should not be used for breeding. Females that are totally black can produce males that express non-black in the hackles. Always select for males that have the least amount of non-black and cross them with females that have produced males with smaller amounts of non-black. Once you get a male that is totally black, then breed him to a sister or a tested female ( most likely his mother). You should get some black birds from the cross. Remember the key to producing good blacks is knowing a female produces good black males. By tested female I mean a female that has consistently produced black females and produced males that do not express non black or expressed very little no-black. Tim

Tim, "
gold or silver makes no difference" because it doesn't show? As in this isn't the cause of the problem.
Or because it can be selected against?

THe males cannot hide their geneotype as easily as the females. So to test the females genotype, breed her to a male with the least leakage. If the offspring increases in leakage, then that came from the mother. Did I understand correctly?

 

[Arielle]

Quote: Gold puts red in the hackles of both the male and female of the BCM. Even among my 4 BCM. from the same pen, the hackle color varies, 2 look like an even red , the other 2 have more yellow in the lowest feathers of the hackle. THe decription of the red is fairly complicated, using words like mahogany. I have learned in horses, you need to see a good example to understand the real meaning of the adjectives.

Snowbird--maybe you have some insight to share on this as well?
Tim --- THis is mostly me looking for verification:

I was rereading all this. I think my comment aboe is WRONG. If the base color is black and the the other alleles allow for red, then all the E, e wheaten, e birchen are all alleles at the E location and play with black to reds at the E loci on two genes.

THerefore gold and silver are at a different loci and has what effect on the expression of the E loci???

I'm trying to think of birds that carry the silver: silver laced wyandotte. Ok. I need to rethink this. silver and gold are sexlinked, so the hen carries one loci for gold or silver and the rooster can carry two. Are there any other alleles for this loci?

HOw does the gold and silver effect color? Silver blocks the expression of e, and makes it "white" whereas gold allow the red to be expressed. Does silver or gold effect E (black)??

 

[tadkerson]

Think of it like this: every chicken is solid black. Different E locus alleles allow for more or less red or white to be expressed on a chicken.

The silver or gold alleles are allowed to express themselves on the black chicken. Gold adds red and silver adds white.

With what we have been discussing, two different loci are involved in the color of the chicken ( base black leaking red).

The E locus and the sex linked silver locus ( gold allele found at silver locus). Silver is incompletely dominant to gold but lets say silver adds white to a chicken. Females can only have a silver or a gold allele; females can not have both alleles. Males can have both a gold and a silver but even if they have both the silver adds mostly white.

Tim

 

[Arielle]

THanks Tim, I'm actually understanding this stuff!!

BLack copper marans is EE. Is it with gold? THe necks are mahogany, and the saddle and I think one other area (maybe wrong here).Iis it lack of melanizers that allow the red to leak thru as mahogany?