Chicken Murder... I didn't think it would happen to me.

[Castaway]

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I disagree.

I think any judge worth their salt would completely dismiss all of the above as totally irrelevant to the FACT that the chicken owner suffered a loss as a result of the dog owner's negligence, and would rule in favor of the chicken owner. I mean, without all the nonsense about leaving babies unattended and whatnot, it's basically a slamdunk..

Unless I missed an important detail in the present case, the fact that the chicken owner suffered a loss is not prima facie evidence of negligence. If the dog was not on a leash and tied down then yes, that is negligence. But if the dog somehow got loose of its restraints then that's not negligence (unless the owner choose not to re-secure the dog once aware), though the dog owner will still be culpable for any damage. My understanding of negligence may be flawed but that's how I understand it.

If, however, the judge decided to rule on how long a mother should be expected to leave her baby alone in the house , I suspect that's going to be determined as the same amount of time it takes for someone to break in or for a fire to break out....both of which, if I'm not mistaken, are roughly equivalent to the twinkling of an eye.

If the time it takes for a fire or break-in to occur was the standard a parent couldn't take a dump without being negligent.​

 

[enola]

When this happened to me, I called Animal Control, went with him to confront the neighbor. Showed her the dead chicken, demanded $20 or go to court. Her only other option was to turn the dog over to me, so I could find someone to give him a responsible loving home.

She paid the $20 immediately. . . .

The poor dog is still with the stupid neighbor . . . .

He has been out several times . . . .

Unfortunately, I have not been able to catch the dog before she has . . . .

But, eventually, I will get him. He deserves a better life !!!!

 

[cmjust0]

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...well, it kinda does cut it.

You can build a fortress, but if management of your chickens involves free ranging, it really doesn't matter if you have a fortress.

So again, we're at protecting your animals in the best way you can, for your situation.

Which is, of course, pretty much exactly what I said...

here, I'll quote myself:

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So...what exactly are you arguing again?

 

[cmjust0]

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Yeah, go ahead and try that argument out in real life around the neighborhood to defend your chickens against that dastardly, irresponsible mom who just wouldn't leave her baby unattended...see where it gets you.

I mean, you do realize that you just called a woman irresponsible for not leaving a baby unattended, right? You realize that you basically just said she was stupid and shouldn't have had children because she refused to leave a baby alone in the house, right?

And...what if she had brought the baby with her and tried to wrangle a chicken-killing dog WHILE HOLDING A BABY?!? If the dog had bitten the baby in a chicken-killing frenzy, what would we have called her then?

Stupid? Yep.. Irresponsible? Yep.. Someone who probably shouldn't have had kids? Yep...

It's seriously time for a REALITY CHECK, people...

And again...let me just point out what we're STILL talking about, and the fact that my original post warned this very thing would happen if the OP made this argument in real life..

I didn't expect that it would happen here, necessarily, but....I guess would be an even better diversion strategy for the dog owner than I could have imagined!!

 

[cmjust0]

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That part I highlighted in bold could just as easily have read "but none of what I just wrote really matters anyway, because the dog owner is still liable."

Which is to say that, basically, we're in agreement.

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If you go take a dump in your neighbor's yard and your house catches fire with your baby inside, then yeah.. You're negligent.

If you take a dump in your bathroom, inside your house, like most of us do, and your house still catches fire and burns down before you can collect your baby and get out...well, at least you weren't doing something stupid like taking a dump in your neighbor's yard at the time.

In other words...you're trying to compare apples and oranges here, and it's not working.

 

[horsejody]

Quote:
Yeah, go ahead and try that argument out in real life around the neighborhood to defend your chickens against that dastardly, irresponsible mom who just wouldn't leave her baby unattended...see where it gets you.

I mean, you do realize that you just called a woman irresponsible for not leaving a baby unattended, right? You realize that you basically just said she was stupid and shouldn't have had children because she refused to leave a baby alone in the house, right?

And...what if she had brought the baby with her and tried to wrangle a chicken-killing dog WHILE HOLDING A BABY?!? If the dog had bitten the baby in a chicken-killing frenzy, what would we have called her then?

Stupid? Yep.. Irresponsible? Yep.. Someone who probably shouldn't have had kids? Yep...

It's seriously time for a REALITY CHECK, people...

And again...let me just point out what we're STILL talking about, and the fact that my original post warned this very thing would happen if the OP made this argument in real life..

I didn't expect that it would happen here, necessarily, but....I guess would be an even better diversion strategy for the dog owner than I could have imagined!!

I never said she should have left the baby. I said she should have brought the baby with her. She knew the dog was loose, not that it was killing chickens. If she would have woke the baby and retrieved the dog before it got at the chickens this thread would not even exist. Please read the posts more carefully. I never said leave the baby. If she had the baby in hand and discovered the dog in a killing frenzy she wouldn't have to risk the baby. She could have screamed or banged on the door and got the chicken owner's attention and prevented at least some of the damage. The dog owner acted irresponsibly. It doesn't even matter if she knew the dog was out. She is liable for all damages, and I hope she pays up and takes better care of her stupid dog.

 

[Casey3043]

Sorry, but I'm having a good cackle here at the mental picture of someone casually taking a dump in her neighbor's yard........while her baby sleeps in the house. Maybe she thought the flush would wake it up? LOL!

 

[Rhett&SarahsMom]

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Fencing can be expensive and it's not the OP's responsibility to keep her neighbors' dogs off her property. It's the dog owner's responsiblity to fence in their dog other do whatever it takes to keep their dog in. I wouldn't dream of asking my neighbors to contribute to the costs of keep my animals (dogs or any) within the borders of my own property.

Yeah, it might solve her problem, depending on the fence and the predatory, but that's quite a financial investment that should be her neighbor's.

It cost me $1000 to fence in goats in a field with five strands of hotwire. I'm sure prices vary from region to region but that wasn't pocket change for me.

If people can afford to put up fences, that's GREAT. And they should do so, but again, it's not YOUR responsilbilty to take on the financial burden of keeping your neighbors' animals off you.

If they border each other, they can both contribute to a fence, but again, the OP's chickens are not the problem (unless they free range past her property line).

It may not be a flock owners responsibility to keep wandering, roaming, dogs off their own property BUT.
It IS the responsibility of the flock owner to PROTECT THEIR OWN FLOCK!!

Even some fencing is better than none. We have those step in(although I dug and set them in) green garden posts. The metal ones. Then I bought some heavy duty garden fencing and did the perimeter of my yard. Granted we dont have a large yard. But it is now fenced and it cost about $200 for us to do it in just one day.

In my neck of the woods charges could be pressed against the mom if she left the house with a sleeping baby inside. Even to go get a errant dog. Heck when I ran a in home daycare I couldnt get my mail from the sidewalk(not even 5 feet from my door!) when I had kids in the house. Sleeping or not.

$20 is fair for a chicken. But I hope you and your neighbor both learned a lesson on animal keeping

 

[cmjust0]

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I did read the post carefully, which is why I mentioned the possibility of her carrying the baby into the frenzy.

You obviously saw where I acknowledged your idea, because you went on to rebut my rebuttal..

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Or, maybe screaming and banging wouldn't have prevented any of the damage at all. You're dealing out pure speculation now..

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As The Dude said in The Big Lebowsky...."Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man."

That's not going to be everybody's opinion, either, so it makes sense to me to stick with what we know to be rock-solid and leave the rest off the table..

So, what do we know is rock-solid?

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BINGO!

See, that's my whole point.. That's why I suggested that the OP not turn the situation into a debate over this woman's parenting decisions -- because she doesn't have to!!!

Just like you said, the dog owner is -- not "should be," not "may be," not "could be" -- is responsible for the damage because it was her dog.

Period.

End of story.

So why start a debate about parenting and run the risk of shooting yourself in the foot unnecessarily?!?

See what I'm saying?!??

 

[LilbitChicken]

WOW....the thread is having so many opinions about different things...

OVERALL....I am a stay at home mommy of 2 little ones(children).....
lots of chickens, goats, rabbits, ducks, cats, & DOG.
Neighbors dogs.....I DO watch for and do yell and get out of my yard.

HOWEVER> if a neighbors dog would attack my animals.....

I would hold them liable for the loss and damages! $20 per chicken at least and the damage to my coop. (not to mention my emotional state might push it up a bit!)