Chicken owner killed lab trying to attack him and his flock

[ChickenChaser9]

Plenty of people on here swear by electric fences. As you can see....they do not always work. Pain is fine motivator but hunger will always win. Always. Some creatures like Opossum are really stupid and will get shocked over and over, others like Coyote will try to avoid it where possible but it is at BEST a deterrent and not a substitute for vigilant stewardship. Any security measure that works inconsistently has the ability to lull you into a false sense of security and then you wake up one morning to a slaughter in your yard. This Coyote got zapped at least twice and lived to tell the tale. Maybe it will be back maybe not. That is the peace of mind an electric fence can offer you... "maybe, maybe not".

 

[Ridgerunner]

When I was talking to Premier about their electric netting I asked how they do in snow. The lady said they do not work in snow. We did not discuss if a wet snow grounds them out or if a dry snow insulates them, but she was clear, don’t count on them in snow.

Most predators don’t return after they have been zapped once or twice, but each year a bunch are born and weaned. They go off to find their own territory. To me your guess that the coyote was maybe a rookie passes the common sense test.

I still consider my netting a deterrent in the snow. So many local critters have been zapped that they are not going to test it again. They are not all rookies. I can’t remember if I’ve had mine 4 or 5 years but I haven’t lost a chicken to a ground based or climbing predator since I got it. I have lost two to flying predators so I agree it is not perfect. But it has been really effective. Losing two to flying predators in 4 to 5 years is a lot better than losing 15 to ground predators in three years without it.

My netting has a life expectancy of seven years according to Premier so not real long to go. When I need to replace it I plan to go with a permanent fence, five feet tall of some type of welded wire mesh and use hot wires around it to stop climbers. The wire mesh fence itself will be my ground to avoid snow problems. I figure that will last me the rest of my life.

 

[centrarchid]

In my experience with animals in general, once they learn of the fence being unpleasant they will not test it. I also cheat where my fencer makes a very audible pop even though fence grounded out. Dogs and I can tell when fence charger is on but I assume the wild animals that know fence which is most only know the sound they associate with getting zapped is also going. I would like to have an automated zap-sound maker to falsely advertise as needed. Critter need not get zapped every time to avoid area.


I have yet to have predator challenge fence when it is grounded out once it has been up for a while and generally hot most of the time. Stray dog coming in would on rare occasions be a different matter.

 

[Howard E]

Plenty of people on here swear by electric fences. As you can see....they do not always work. Pain is fine motivator but hunger will always win. Always. Some creatures like Opossum are really stupid and will get shocked over and over, others like Coyote will try to avoid it where possible but it is at BEST a deterrent and not a substitute for vigilant stewardship. Any security measure that works inconsistently has the ability to lull you into a false sense of security and then you wake up one morning to a slaughter in your yard. This Coyote got zapped at least twice and lived to tell the tale. Maybe it will be back maybe not. That is the peace of mind an electric fence can offer you... "maybe, maybe not".

Actually, as near as I can tell, he only got zapped once and not a good one at that. Tracks suggested a sense of urgency to get out from under the fence but not an all out panic. That was when he was crawling under to get in. As he was trying to get out, he went to a corner, then stood at the fence doing what I've seen our little house dog do as he was thinking of testing it (a second time).......moving back and forth and crouching to jump a couple times. The coyote then did make that leap to clear it. He did not go back under it. What concerned me the most about the effectiveness was when he came in the first time. He stopped at the fence, but then moved down the line to go under it. I would have preferred to see a set of tracks headed back the other way with a lot of distance between them suggesting he had put some speed on. If he comes back, I will have to try the chicken skin trick to get him to lick or sniff it. Will see how much he likes that.

BTW, I found a similar set of coyote tracks on the other side of the place, and this set walked up to a standard woven wire livestock fence and straight on through it coming out on the other side like it wasn't even there. Gap in this fence was about 6" x 8" about 18 inches or so off the ground. That was no deterrent and caused no concern to him at all.

I agree that electric fences may not be 100% effective, but if they deter 99% of predator attempts, that is a good start. Compare that to the loss potential of nothing at all.

 

[centrarchid]

Most fencer people here are still one dimensional where all eggs put in one defense basket. If you are into poultry for the long haul, especially free-range, then you might start considering how to develop synergism with other ways of managing habitat to make fencing more effective. Starting point is how the pasture is managed. That pretty mowed, thoroughly grazed look makes so birds hang out in closer proximity to fence than needed as fence is closest thing to cover the birds have. Raptors will hunt in open near fence, hungry diurnal mammal will be more motivated to penetrate fence for prey very close by, and birds will be more inclined to penetrate the semi-permeable perimeter.


I must be blocked.

 

[Howard E]

Another thought on snow and electric fences and why it might not work. Pure water does not conduct electricity. It is only any salts or impurities within water that turn it into a good electrical conductor. So a dry snow, in addition to being light and fluffy and not very dense, should be mostly pure water and not a good conductor. In fact closer to an insulator than a conductor. Next time we get a few inches of fresh snow, I'll pile some up, then put a metal plate on it and test the voltage I get through the snow.

Moral to this story is if you are having a predator problem, and are depending upon an electric fence for protection, you may want to clear away any snow from the perimeter to get the predator standing on the ground. Option B might be to raise your lowest hot wire a bit, then include another grounded wire closer to the ground to entice them to crawl through the fence to get in. That way they are more likely to be in contact with a ground and hot wire to get zapped.

FWIW, it has been 4 days now since our most recent snowfall and no more tracks in the snow. That one coyote is the only thing that has been inside the wire in the past 4 days.

 

[EggSighted4Life]

Another thought on snow and electric fences and why it might not work. Pure water does not conduct electricity. It is only any salts or impurities within water that turn it into a good electrical conductor. So a dry snow, in addition to being light and fluffy and not very dense, should be mostly pure water and not a good conductor. In fact closer to an insulator than a conductor. Next time we get a few inches of fresh snow, I'll pile some up, then put a metal plate on it and test the voltage I get through the snow.

Moral to this story is if you are having a predator problem, and are depending upon an electric fence for protection, you may want to clear away any snow from the perimeter to get the predator standing on the ground. Option B might be to raise your lowest hot wire a bit, then include another grounded wire closer to the ground to entice them to crawl through the fence to get in. That way they are more likely to be in contact with a ground and hot wire to get zapped.

FWIW, it has been 4 days now since our most recent snowfall and no more tracks in the snow. That one coyote is the only thing that has been inside the wire in the past 4 days.

Deductive reasoning is great! And trouble shooting is fun (when you aren't having issues).

 

[mandikay24]

This lab didn't attack anyone at all he barked twice and the guy goes in his house gets a gun and earmuffs shoots the dog twice and hides his body in a barrel.

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[EggSighted4Life]

This lab didn't attack anyone at all he barked twice and the guy goes in his house gets a gun and earmuffs shoots the dog twice and hides his body in a barrel

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Hi, welcome to BYC!

You saw it happen?

 

[mandikay24]

Labs are not aggressive the dog was wearing a collar the dude has admitted all this in a police report

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