Chicken owner killed lab trying to attack him and his flock

[EggSighted4Life]

Labs are not aggressive the dog was wearing a collar the dude has admitted all this in a police report

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Each dog no matter what breed are individuals. And any animal with teeth has the ability to bite. If you read the whole thread, you might remember that my brother was bitten in his face by a black LAB and received stitches. I can't see collars or breed in the dark. And we do keep out ear muffs right with our guns.

Also, you might remember my non aggressive dog approaching the lady who was freaked out and crying. How can a stranger determine if a bark is a threat or not? Sounds threatening to me. And all dogs are predators. It's mostly only with training that they learn not to chase and attack livestock. And it IS our responsibility to PROTECT our livestock.

It might not have been the best decision or even right in most peoples' eyes. But the guy made a split second decision that I'm sure he has questioned since then. Until you've been in the same situation, you might not realize how you would react. Many of us have made suggestions to help him (the OP) to make a better decision in the future. But BYC is a caring community where we try to help people make appropriate decisions regarding our animals. And here we have decided to be helpful instead of bashing the man who is already living in a community filled with hate and anger. ( I would possibly be one of them, the whole barrel thing is appalling.) But I do understand not wanting to deal with the back lash especially if he found the collar after shooting the dog. There are variables it is easy for us to overlook and judge about.

Disclosure... I am a dog person! They are my favorite and I have 3 rescues who have free reign of the house. All my dogs will come from the pound. I am passionate for animals.

Fences fall down and dogs get out. I will be devastated if one of my neighbors shoots one of my dogs. But since joining BYC I now know that is a real possibility that I had NEVER even considered before.

Again, I'm not saying he was in the right. I'm saying let's work together to help others not do the same thing and rally together like the community we are!

I hope you enjoy BYC as much as I have. This is a very caring community with lots of people with great info and they are willing to share! Best wishes.

 

[mandikay24]

Quote:Each dog no matter what breed are individuals. And any animal with teeth has the ability to bite. If you read the whole thread, you might remember that my brother was bitten in his face by a black LAB and received stitches. I can't see collars or breed in the dark. And we do keep out ear muffs right with our guns.

Also, you might remember my non aggressive dog approaching the lady who was freaked out and crying. How can a stranger determine if a bark is a threat or not? Sounds threatening to me. And all dogs are predators. It's mostly only with training that they learn not to chase and attack livestock. And it IS our responsibility to PROTECT our livestock.

It might not have been the best decision or even right in most peoples' eyes. But the guy made a split second decision that I'm sure he has questioned since then. Until you've been in the same situation, you might not realize how you would react. Many of us have made suggestions to help him (the OP) to make a better decision in the future. But BYC is a caring community where we try to help people make appropriate decisions regarding our animals. And here we have decided to be helpful instead of bashing the man who is already living in a community filled with hate and anger. ( I would possibly be one of them, the whole barrel thing is appalling.) But I do understand not wanting to deal with the back lash especially if he found the collar after shooting the dog. There are variables it is easy for us to overlook and judge about.

Disclosure... I am a dog person! They are my favorite and I have 3 rescues who have free reign of the house. All my dogs will come from the pound. I am passionate for animals.

Fences fall down and dogs get out. I will be devastated if one of my neighbors shoots one of my dogs. But since joining BYC I now know that is a real possibility that I had NEVER even considered before.

Again, I'm not saying he was in the right. I'm saying let's work together to help others not do the same thing and rally together like the community we are!

I hope you enjoy BYC as much as I have. This is a very caring community with lots of people with great info and they are willing to share! Best wishes.

I agree I'm just saying why if you feel threatened come back outside I love all animals Sent from my XT1609 using Tapatalk

 

[EggSighted4Life]

I agree I'm just saying why if you feel threatened come back outside I love all animals

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Only reason I could justify would be to protect my other animals.

Glad to have you as part of the community here! I've learned so much, even from this thread... that has already and will continue to help mine and my animals' lives, and others cuz I can share with them now to.

 

[ShrekDawg]

If there was a real threat then I support shooting even though I personally wouldn't shoot (at least not first) because I know that sometimes it's necessary and the shooter usually feels just as bad about it or worse than anyone else. However, that said, there is a lot to this story that just doesn't add up. Was the dog really a threat? We don't know. But we do know he went back inside to get a gun which to me signals there was not an immediate threat and he had every intention of shooting him. Of course, we are not in his shoes but I think I would have stayed inside or tried to run it off and only shoot if it's actively attacking me or my animals. But every person is different and I'm not gonna judge someone for shooting where I wouldn't. So that's not really that relevant. But the part where it starts to get really shady and where I start to, yes, judge a little bit as much as I try not to, is when he put the dog in a barrel as well as when he slammed the window on the neighbor. Both of those are rather heartless imo. Maybe he didn't mean to me and we need to help him rather than attack, like was mentioned, but it certainly comes across as that way. Now, there are people who believe in SSS which is fine, I'm not a huge fan but you do you, but he didn't respectfully bury the dog, he shoved it in a barrel. And then to slam the window. I understand he was nervous but it makes you look more suspicious. If you're gonna do it, answer the door respectfully and say no, sorry, haven't seen him but I'll let you know. Or something like that. Now, I would never be able to lie like that but it's less suspicious

 

[Zoomie]

I know it may not be pertinent to this situation, but when my life was threatened by 4 dogs (in a pack) and every single one of them was wearing a collar. I know dogs. I can tell when I'm being stalked... tail in a low position, head in a low position, dog slowly creeping up on me, lips lifted in a snarl, eyes straight on me... it haunts me to this day.

As far as the dog in the barrel: I, PERSONALLY, do not leave dead animals laying around my property. I fully admit that someone else might leave a dead animal simply laying in its tracks but I do not just step over the body and go about my business. I try and at least get them into a feed bag or some where else fairly safe, so that when I have time I can deal with the body. I have NO IDEA if that's what the OP was doing. It's simply that I, too, would probably have put the body in a safe place until I could deal with it. I have to work. I don't always have time to spend digging a grave in the middle of the night in the winter.

Dogs are predators. Period. Sure! They can be your fun and happy companions and many times they are. No question about that! The can guard livestock and do a great job. But. They can also kill livestock. I know that all too well; I have personally lost hundreds of thousands of dollar's worth of livestock to dogs.

I always try and err on the side of kindness and compassion. I always try and err on the side of thinking the best of everyone, and every animal. Even so. The fact remains: I was nearly killed by dogs. Tame, pet dogs, that had collars on them. Just because a dog has a collar on it does not mean it won't kill livestock or that it won't kill a HUMAN. This happens all the time. I know that many don't want to accept that, but a dog can also be a dangerous animal. I think we need to give both parties in this a break. Better to focus on education.

 

[ShrekDawg]

I hadn't really thought of it like that before and I admit I thought of the barrel as just a cold thing, not of maybe he planned to bury it later. You have a point. And I mean, surely it would start to smell eventually so thinking about it, I guess you're right and I doubt he planned to leave it there. But I don't know, just the whole way they went about things and the way it was handled was a little weird to me but you are right that we should give a break since we weren't there. I think we all, including and maybe especially myself, need to remember that.

That said, wow that is scary! You are right, most people would never think a pet is capable but they are. Although perhaps certain breeds are more prone to pack up? But I think all dogs are capable.

Speaking of which, often times, even the sweetest dog joins up with a pack and the dogs just get that pack mentality. Kind of like mob mentality with people. They think very differently than they do as an individual and do things they might never normally do, like stalk a human. And sometimes sweet dogs are just along for the ride, they might not actively do the attacking but they are there going along with the group. I do think maybe higher prey drive makes it more likely too? But all dogs can be a danger.

But that's another reason why I think people shouldn't let dogs run loose. I realize it might be different in the country than it is in the suburbs or city (although even in suburbs and cities people do it) but dogs should be contained. Not just for the dangers to them, like getting hit by a car or getting into a fight with a wild animal, but for the dangers they could potentially present to others too - like attacking someone's livestock or attacking a human and in both of those situations they are very likely to be shot too.

I realize people might like the dog to have fun or not have the time to exercise it or for LGDs maybe they need to do their job, but if someone has the time to exercise it, they should instead of unleashing it on neighbors.

I'm sure your case is not the only case of dogs attacking humans.

And another thing, I think running free in the country they are more likely to gain that pack mentality too. It can happen in cities too, sure, but people are more likely to catch them and it's a less natural environment, out running through the woods and fields, it's natural and just like wild animals hunting so I think that might trigger it more. But I could be wrong, who knows.

 

[Zoomie]

@KDOGG331 I think you are SO very right about keeping dogs contained ESPECIALLY in the country where they can get into so much trouble. I get so aggravated when I see a dog running loose, because so often it means the owner just does not care about it. Dogs deserve better than that! They deserve to be cherished and loved by their human packs, not just turned out loose on their own.

The dogs that attacked me were all different kinds. One was some sort of husky, the others were just mongrels, all smaller than the husky. One had a slight pit bull-type look to it, but who knows. I was pretty traumatized at the time, and although I was sure about the husky I was not real sure about the others; the husky was the closest so I was focusing on that one. At the time I was so shaken up I would have had a hard time telling you what my name was.

Right after that happened to me, a woman in CO was killed by three dogs when she went out to check on her horse at the barn.

So I hope people will forgive me when I take the idea of an aggressive dog seriously. Really the best thing is to keep your dog on your own property. That way you never have to have the heartbreak of a dog hit by a car, killed by a coyote etc. or have to worry about your dog killing livestock. You'll always know you pal is safe and sound in the yard.

 

[Peeps61]

As a dog owner AND a chicken keeper, I can say that I occasionally lose a bird to predators and once in a great while to my dogs if it flies into the back yard with them. The smarter chickens don't do that as a result!

However, if a stray was on my property and I couldn't chase it away from my birds, or it looked as if it were going to attack me, then yes, I would have shot the dog. I DO carry a pistol when I go out to lock my birds up as we have a very active coyote population and many feral dongs and cats in our area, not to mention meth heads that like to steal from and rob other people. I live in the country, but we are not out in the middle of nowhere and do frequently get dogs on our property, either coming to visit with my dogs or drawn by the chickens. if I can, I attempt to speak with the owner first and that usually stops the problem. If not, and I am looking at a substantial loss, I would shoot the dog. If it's on my property, I have that right.

A simple post to the Facebook community would read something like this: "If you love your dog, act like it and keep it confined on your properly. Otherwise, it will get into trouble that leaves others no choice but to handle it in such a way that the dog doesn't come back." Then, just ignore the rest of the hype. That's the nice thing about social media - you don't HAVE to read it!

 

[EggSighted4Life]

Fences fail sometimes. And I don't do facebook... And one of my dogs often get's her collar removed because she loves to roll in dead stuff and cat or chicken poo. So I have to clean it. Even though I have extras, don't be surprised what kinda messes a dog can get into. I hope it never happens to me. Not too many check for micro chips after the dogs dead. And not knowing is terrible.

Yep, my SIL locks her dog up at night so it doesn't get killed by coyotes. We have lots of predators here as well. Packing is ALWAYS a good idea in that situation. And like you say, we aren't THAT remote, so the two legged wild life is another possible threat.

 

[TalkALittle]

As a dog owner, a chicken keeper, and a professional dog trainer here is my take on it.

Any dog, regardless of breed can bite. The most human aggressive dog I ever worked with and the one who was most likely to try to take a chunk out of me was a lab.

If there was a dog after my chickens I'd try and run it off but not before I grabbed something (big ol' stick, lawn chair, or gun if it was handy) to protect myself just in case it turned on me.

FWIW, I'm a middle aged, suburban mom and I've got my air rifle leaned in a corner just inside my back door.

The last thing I care about is whether a loose dog is wearing a collar. The only thing I care about is what its behavior is telling me of its intentions. By and large, people suck at reading dog body language.

If it was winter and I had just shot a large predator and I had a large barrel, I would put the body the barrel. If it was the middle of the night it would sit there until I had time the next day to decide how to best dispose of it. If I didn't have time the next day, well it's winter and cold so the body can wait a while. In a barrel is a good way to burn something when it's cold and you can't bury it because the ground is frozen or you just don't want to have to dig a big hole in the cold.

If I shot my neighbor's dog I would tell no one. If it was winter and the body would keep, I might even be inclined to let it sit in a barrel for a couple of days so as not to be seen burning something the day after a neighbor's dog went missing. Not because I think what I did was wrong, but because it's likely they will and I would rather avoid messy conflict if possible.

I would feel like sh!t but I would not feel my actions were wrong or unjustified.