chickens and soybeans.

[duluthralphie]

I stumbled upon several threads saying soybeans were poisonous to chickens. I am wondering if anyone feeds soybeans to their chickens and what quantity.

When I was a kid our chickens ate soybeans that spilled in the yard and under the elevators/dryers. Now admittedly this was only for a short 2-3 week period and our chickens never had any side effects that we noticed.

 

[chooks4life]

Perhaps they mean raw soybeans? Plenty of chook feeds contain processed and heat treated soymeal, soy, etc, but none raw soy, that I know of.

Soy is toxic unless fermented. But it's far less toxic cooked than raw.
Quote:

This site has a pretty straightforward readup on verified facts about soy; I know they're verified facts because I've read the sources their info came from, they're the resident authorities on the subject in terms of toxicology and nutrition science.

Some of this info is decades old but none of it has been debunked, it's still current scientifically validated information on soy:
Quote:
Best wishes.

 

[duluthralphie]

I wonder why ours never got sick, maybe the short duration did not allow toxin build up.

Are pheasant exempt from this, you always find pheasants in bean fields?

 

[duluthralphie]

the link
www.wereyouwondering.com%2Fdid-you-know-that-raw-soybeans-are-toxic

Is suspect to me. There seems to be an anti soybean bias to it. I thought it interesting to start, but as it went on it became a rant against processed food manufacturers and labeling info.

I am not doubting the compound listed are toxic, but the level and quantity is not mentioned. I am willing to bet an ingredient or two in milk is toxic at some level.

 

[duluthralphie]

I found this after looking at the link you posted.

http://www.extension.org/pages/67352/feeding-soybean-to-poultry#.VCbEycItBdc

From it:

" Soybeans can be fed to poultry whole or as soybean meal, a by-product of oil extraction. Oil can be extracted from soybeans by the application of pressure, which is referred to as expeller or mechanical extraction, or by solvent extraction. Most commercial feeds use solvent-extracted soybean meal. Only mechanically extracted soybean meal can be used in organic poultry diets.
Soybean meal has a high protein content, especially when compared to other plant protein sources. Soybean meal also has an excellent amino acid profile that complements that of corn, the primary energy source in poultry diets."


This is from the University to Minnesota.

I am not disagreeing with you, I am just trying to figure it all out.

 

[duluthralphie]

Here is a site that argues against the benefits of soybeans without mentioning toxins.

http://www.thepoultrysite.com/articles/194/whole-soybeans-in-diets-for-poultry

 

[nguyenkinhphuc2]

How about soybean sprouts/ growing fodder?

 

[duluthralphie]

How about soybean sprouts/ growing fodder?

Good question....

Let's see what we can find on that...

Just so everyone knows when I start these threads I like others input and I use the thread to keep my findings to help me make decisions. Just because I ask it or post a link does not mean I agree or disagree with it, I am in the gathering information stage.

 

[chooks4life]

I wonder why ours never got sick, maybe the short duration did not allow toxin build up.

Are pheasant exempt from this, you always find pheasants in bean fields?

Soybean fields, specifically? Or just any legume fields?

There's many cultivars of soy, they have differing properties. Do you actually see the pheasants eat the soy?

the link
www.wereyouwondering.com%2Fdid-you-know-that-raw-soybeans-are-toxic

Is suspect to me. There seems to be an anti soybean bias to it. I thought it interesting to start, but as it went on it became a rant against processed food manufacturers and labeling info.

They're pretty justifiably anti-soybean, lol. It's been touted as being safe and super-healthy but it's far from it.

I don't have an opinion on their opinions about food manufacturers and labeling info, but the facts they stated about soy are verified, hence me linking to the site; this site just had all the relevant info in handy form, is all.

If you search all the specific claims they made against soy, you'll find the studies they based the claims off. They're all as reputable as it gets. More reputable than Universities, too, as rightfully esteemed as many of them are.

I am not doubting the compound listed are toxic, but the level and quantity is not mentioned. I am willing to bet an ingredient or two in milk is toxic at some level.

Anything's toxic at some concentration, for sure.

I found this after looking at the link you posted.

http://www.extension.org/pages/67352/feeding-soybean-to-poultry#.VCbEycItBdc

From it:

" Soybeans can be fed to poultry whole or as soybean meal, a by-product of oil extraction. Oil can be extracted from soybeans by the application of pressure, which is referred to as expeller or mechanical extraction, or by solvent extraction. Most commercial feeds use solvent-extracted soybean meal. Only mechanically extracted soybean meal can be used in organic poultry diets.
Soybean meal has a high protein content, especially when compared to other plant protein sources. Soybean meal also has an excellent amino acid profile that complements that of corn, the primary energy source in poultry diets."


This is from the University to Minnesota.

I am not disagreeing with you, I am just trying to figure it all out.

And so you should, as livestock keepers we have a duty to fulfill. I've been reading up on soy for the same reasons, myself.

Yes, that's all standard info about soy, you can find even more glowing endorsements all over the place.

Yet the research papers proving it's toxic still remain. They're not drop-dead-overnight toxins, but far more insidious.

Soy is classed as an oilseed, not a pulse, its primary use is for industrial purposes, and historically industrial manufacturers have always benefited from finding ways to re-purpose waste rather than just dumping it, which is often difficult and sometimes outright illegal for them. Our diets currently include many industrial byproducts. Soymeal in livestock feed is one of them. This isn't biased or conspiracy theorist, it's plain factually based information, accepted and acknowledged by even the industries responsible for the byproducts. That's just the processing chain.

Always pays to remember this though...

ALL fatally toxic plants also contain a broad spectrum of nutrients, since they are simply part of the average life-form, plant or animal. They're the very same nutrients we need for life. But when they come in conjunction with toxins, we deem the plant toxic; doesn't mean it also doesn't contain all the same vitamins, minerals, proteins, etc of plants we deem safe.

Best wishes.

How about soybean sprouts/ growing fodder?

Apparently they're also safe to eat sprouted. No idea about the older plants, though.

There's a decent general-info article on it, on Wikipedia, though it puts a more positive spin on it than researchers ended up with. It's an economically important plant after all and doesn't have a habit of dropping consumers dead overnight.

You can always find studies by reputable researchers both proving and disproving everything; however in this case, it's interesting that the studies trying to prove soy is safe are lower quality than those researching its toxic compounds; the jury is out on the fact that it's toxic, that's beyond question. It's toxic.

But, as mentioned before, everything is toxic in some quantity. That said, soy is not something you have to consume large amounts of to experience the toxic results, and they're insidious, causing reproductive defects, endocrine disorders, and a host of other problems. It's not a case of there being a simple toxin which might make your stomach hurt if you eat too much; it's a whole array of nasty toxins which even in low dosage have long term, even cross-generational effects on multiple organ systems...

But it's still accepted as fodder, as many other proven harmful fodder items are. Use at your own discretion/risk type fodder, really.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soybean

 

[duluthralphie]

I am tending to agree with your last sentence for sure, as to whether I will feed them or not, I am not sure yet.

I have shot pheasants with soybean in their crop.

BUT when you read up on what is found in crops, it proves birds eat anything.


I have a habit of giving more weight to what university research says, however, I am not naïve and know that many times the "results" are not real but just phantoms that will give the university department or researcher the best shot at more government grant money to further study it.