Chickens for 10-20 years or more? Pull up a rockin' chair and lay some wisdom on us!

[Beekissed]

I don't have ads on Firefox either...I think there is an option on this site that lets you remove the ads and I chose it. Another good feature.

 

[Gargoyle]

Maybe the browser you use? There is a box that shows all the recent pics on a thread and you can click to view them all!!! How cool is that and we really needed that! There have been many times when I wanted to see a pic that had gotten buried in a thread and I gave up trying to find it again. Cool feature and long overdue!

There is a thread in the feedback forum about it. The box on the upper right is "module view". If you set your forum preferences to "Hide right column in forum threads", that kills the module view.
____________________

When you click an image in a thread with more than three images, there is a new menu bar at the top, above the enlarged picture. You can scroll through all the pix in the thread, or click "gallery view" to see all thumbnails at once.

 

[Pozees]

I know you would but she is mine....

She seems to be in no apparent distress, shows no signs of skin parasites, eats well, lays well - honestly, aside from the missing feathers, I don't know why you would cull. I understand the drive toward the most robust flock you can create, but in this case you have a hen who is a good layer even though she is missing a lot of feathers, and from what you said earlier it sounds like some are growing back. Unless there is a mad dash to the end result of the perfect flock, I don't know why you wouldn't give this hen a chance and I'm glad you have decided to do so. I completely understand why one would cull a hen with multiple problems that could ultimately affect the general health of the flock, but unless I missed something (entirely possible) it didn't sound to me as if she presents a risk to her flockmates. If anything, I would treasure a hen living with half her feathers and still laying regularly. That is one tough biddy!

 

[Pozees]

The problem with keeping disabled birds is there comes a time where you have to ask yourself...where do I draw the line? As season adds to season and chicken life goes along, you may find yourself with this or that bird that doesn't do well and causes more work or trouble, or this bird that doesn't lay but she sure is friendly, or this one that is crippled and has to be kept isolated or the other birds pick on her or whatever.

If you keep birds for years and your goal is to at least not lose money on the venture, somewhere along the way a person needs to decide if you are running a home for misfit toys or actually raising chickens for food? Once started, the sentiment can gain momentum and pretty soon you have a flock that is eating but not producing, causing you more time away from your family because they require extra care or you are dealing with the stress of trying to nurse birds along where you really didn't need added stress in your life.

When OTs advise to cull, they do it with those years behind them and not in front...we know what it takes to be successful at this chicken keeping thing for years upon years, not for a season or two. Keeping chickens doesn't have to be complicated but it quickly becomes so when people get frustrated when this chicken has perpetually bare skin or that one doesn't lay..ever..or this one walks with a limp and WHY??

It may seem heroic or heart felt to "save" this one or that one and you can see that she was of benefit later on...but what about the next one? And the one after that? And when you have whole flocks of crippled, bald, barren chickens~but gee they sure are friendly!~when do you finally just call it what it is...a flock of pets.

We OTs may seem like the baddies and heartless and we just don't know the worth of these cute animals that steal your heart...but we know chickens. We've been doing this thing for years and have found that sentiment gets out of hand and soon you really don't have chickens... you just have animals that are pretty much worthless for anything but to look at and throw money towards.

If your only goal is to not lose money on any bird, then one should cull every hen that doesn't at least cut even - but using your slippery slope argument, one might wind up culling at every molt, replacing entire flocks.
Decisions about which hens to keep and which to cull rest with individual flock owners, and each of us has to do what we know we can live with. Your advice is heartfelt, wise, and offered in the spirit of educating those of us with far fewer years "in chickens" and we are all very grateful and appreciative, and I sincerely believe we all learn from every discussion about the multitude of issues that arise once we decide to keep chickens, regardless of our reasons at the outset or during.
I don't think you are required to defend your decisions to cull any more than I think others are required to defend their decisions not to, and thus, any time anyone does take the time to explain how decisions are reached, an act of selflessness benefits many of us. When one of us realizes the extra efforts we might make for a chicken with greater than average needs no longer serve us or our flock, we take comfort in knowing we are not alone in deciding a chicken has reached its natural end of life, and the value of the history all of you offer, coupled with the fresh ideas or ruminations of those of us with less experience, creates an exchange of ideas unequaled anywhere, in my humble estimation.

 

[Beekissed]

I'm sure she is no harm to her flock mates and no one suggested she was. A bird with perpetually bald skin is open to injury and infection at all times...the back has little adipose tissue and is mainly skin over bone~this leaves her at risk. The lack of good feathering is a genetic flaw that no one wants to pass along...feathers are there for a reason and they protect and insulate from sun, rain and cold. In other words, they are important and if a bird cannot grow 'em or keep 'em, she has an undesirable trait that no one would or should want to pass along.

Yes, I know that pet flocks and such that aren't for any purpose than for entertainment and a few eggs, but this thread is geared towards common sense advice about flock management. That's why it's here. You may not agree with it and may not like it, but the advice is for a reason. We don't just say "cull her" willy-nilly because we are in a race for the perfect flock. There's no such thing.

When we give that advice it's for a purpose....everyone is free to take it or leave it, but arguing it back and forth serves no purpose here. Yeah, she lays. No, she doesn't look to be in any pain...but you go without a shirt through winter and summer and tell me you aren't uncomfortable. Especially when the rooster climbs up with toenails aclawin' and does his thing.

In any utility or breeder flock, this bird is a cull. Pet flocks? We don't really cater to those here....

That's another thread.

 

[Beekissed]

Quote: I can't imagine any wise person culling for poor feathering during molt. Not really a good example and nor have we ever gave that advice.

 

[pigeonguy]

No need to apologize....I asked for help and you gave it! It was sweet.

What do you do to cut costs, PG?

I am just starting this chicken venture my BCMs are 2 to 21/2 moths old. I have helped tend to the neighbors chicken flocks my hole life though. I had pigeons for 42 years I think don't remember how young I was when I got them. Just know it was a long time . What did I learn raising one is like raising the other their all birds.
Ok on to the question. I do everything pretty much the same as you do exept with pigeon you cull for free rangers Racing homers have no place setting on the ground. Yes we did eat those culls. The chickens have 4800 square ft. of free run, range there's only 31 of them and 8 maybe 9 of those are named supper (roos). They will have 811/2 acres to free range when they get older 80 of that is corn field. I do count charcoal as a cost saver used it on pigeons and am using on chickens. I already know if I don't the lice will move in (so I don't have to buy stuff for lice). I do have a pretty good job make a decent buck but I use none of that to raise the chickens. I don't know if this counts as saving money but I mow peoples lawns' rototill and plant flowers for money (no set amount just what they may have extra pretty much charity work) to buy feed (that don't mean I ain't a cheep skate) If I work real hard and take care of a lot of people I can make $50.00 a month no not apiece alltogether some have only a doller or 2 to spare. Raised my son the same and when he ask why do we do this again dad I would walk over give him a lite tap on the back of the head and say because we are good people son learn from it and get back to work.
I just started fermenting feed (Thanx BEE). We'll see how that goes. Other than that ain't no sence in repeating what you said. Oh there is one other thing all my extra roo's that don't get culled will go to my nieghbors to live with the hogs (roosters eat and thrive on hog manure they pass a lot of whole grains fermented to) That way if my flock roo gets killed I can go down and get a new BCM roo For FREEEEEEE
Another subject would be I feed sweet 16 as scratch grains every day lots of vitamins. Pretty much has everything calf manna does. I buy wood shavings for $4.25 a bale 2.5 cubic feet compressed and 6.75 cubic feet expanded shrink wraped in plastic for storage 1 bale will do my 4x12 ft brooder coop 2 and a half times and my main coop 61/2x15(still in progress) once then since I am using deep litter (sometimes I don't think people understand that means 6, 8, 10, 12, inches or more) one more bag will do it 2 more times. So for both my coops it cost me $42.50 a year to use pine wood shavings. I don't think I could buy and store 10 metal garbage cans for that. If you already have them great unless you use what you have and then buy more to store feed because thats the same as buying them for the leaves. It also would probly take more than 10 garbage cans and a lot of space that can be used for something else to store as many leaves as I have wood shavings plus the store stores them for me. I get 3 at a time.
Well I guess I'm starting to ramble so I will end with this. I don't even realy know why I got these exept I love birds and I was tired of pigeons so I switched. But if i want eggs all I have to do is walk to the neghbors any which way I want to go and take a couple dozen heck I feed their flocks and cure them when sick or just plain cull for them. So I guess you could say its hobby.
But none of the nieghbors have BCMs and I wanted some of those $20.00 to $30.00 a plate eggs. Thats right if you go to the city to the high falootin places they have 2 BCM eggs, bacon, hashbrowns and toast for $20.00 to $30.00 a plate.
I apologize (there I go again I'm sorry no realy I didn't mean that I'm sorry ok seriously I'll stop now.)if I got to far off topic here but once I do get to talking I forget when to shut up.

 

[Fred's Hens]

To flip the flock before first moult is indeed something that makes sense to a lot of flocks that are kept for eggs, eggs and more eggs. A top laying strain, like a commercial Red Sex Link, hatched in March might begin laying by August 1st. These layers will produce roughly 300 eggs their first pullet year, sometimes even 310 eggs. But, by the next autumn, there is a moult coming. There is a decision to be made. Keep them, feed them through the 4-6 week re-feathering or just flip the birds. The new year's pullet crop is in full lay, so in the industry, flipping the flock just before first moult is actually quite common.

Here's what we do. We are selective. We do evaluate the birds and some get sold off, but not all. Some of the birds will be kept for a second laying season. These are not meat birds, as they have virtually no meat on their bones. These aren't heritage birds. These birds don't even breed true. These are layers. Yes, these birds are kept for eggs, not to be redundant, but it's true. They are often "lit" by their keepers during winter months to keep going. There is another sobering reality is that many of these high flying, high output super layers do in fact suffer from internal laying and other "burn out" issues. Keeping them for a second or even a third season brings these risks to the fore.

If breaking even or perhaps making a few bucks in the small holdings egg biz is one's game, all these things get factored into the equation. There is virtually nothing of the "pet" philosophy that enters into one's equation.

Before you think me hard nosed, please remember that I can mentally separate the "eggers" from my "pets" (yes, I have a couple I am affectionate about) and my heritage birds, which are a different ball of wax altogether. Totally different criteria is applied to those in figuring the economic equation.

 

[Gargoyle]

Pet flocks? We don't really cater to those here....

That's another thread.

Pet Rocks, on the other hand, is an area where I definitely know how to cull. Then again, rock math is worse than chicken math; I have pallets and racks full, dozens of tons accumulated. (but I have no problem culling the useless stock).

 

[CuteTxChicks]

Hens like another hen in the nest box next to them...they talk to each other. The smaller, more cozy and close setups are what they like.

Not my girls.... three BR lay in one corner, the other two layers have squared off in opposite corners of the coop. So.... when you go in the coop looking for eggs, look all around. When the nest boxes were all next to each other, they were just laying on the floor!